Cheers for coming in on the thread. I'd started to noticed the pace of the bouts in the two styles as I'd watched more fights. I like the fact that every strike in Muay Thai is thrown with 'bad intentions' as well! Something that's being drilled into me when I'm told to stop flicking my jab out! I've already noticed in the few short weeks I've been training in KB/Muay Thai how quickly my power has increased....now to sort that problem of technique out!
Hmmm. Dunno if you know Sandy on a personal level mate. But I do. Until then you can say whatever the hell you like - i have an opinion, Im more than entitled to it, and I'm more likely to know than you. You of all people should know fine well that muay thai in the UK in the 80's was not muay thai at allin most cases. How much do actually have to do with british muay thai anyways? how much do you actually know? I'm not sure where it is you're actually from - is it the uk?
Good for you. I'm sure he's impressed you flaunt your pity for him and refer him in pejorative terms. I'm sure he's chuffed you know him. You certainly are entitled to your opinion. Even if it means badmouthing others who came long before you even had put on a pair of gloves. As for likely to know more... I'm not sure about what as you didn't seem very clear on his achievements in the early days of the UK kickboxing scene. I never said it was. That wasn't implied either. Go back and read what was posted. Seriously. You don't know what you're on about. Enough to understand and recognize to give credit where credit is due and certainly enough to have the class not to stand around and bad mouth fighters from an earlier era who've actually put it on the line repeatedly and shown they've got the guts and the heart to be in the fight game. That's not really that hard to understand... well... for some anyhow. It's largely irrelevant where I'm from in this instance. I knew enough to call BS on your derogatory remarks about someone who's talked the talked and walked the walk. If you can't or won't understand the contributions that Sandy Holt and other early kickboxers in the UK made towards growing the fight scene and laying the groundwork for the muay thai (and other martial arts) that did eventually come to the UK... then you really need to stop getting so huffy and start sitting down and looking the history of the fighters that come from the UK and the influence they had. You're more than entitled to your opinion... but just know that if you can't understand the why's and the hows of your the fight history/scene in your own country... then you've worked hard to not be taken very seriously. Instead of being huffy why not sit down and take a look at how different the scene was back then and why. Who were the fighters of the day and the contributions they made to the scene. Knock yourself out.
Will do. I'm putting together a series of interviews with fighters from back in the day... he's definitely on my list of characters. Always a good laugh he is. :hat:
Why don't you come off the high horse pal and go back and re read my posts. I fail to see where I even spoke about sandy's fights. So before you start trying to criticise me for something that I didn't do or say, why don't you take a long hard think about what subject you're trying to lecture on and to whom. Better yet, go on axkickboxing.com and speak with sandy yourself before you feel the need to jump to his defense as a person. You don't know him and have never had any experience of him. What he did or did not do for the sport, the fact that he got in the ring and the fact that he's still on the go has nothing to do with the various personal defects I reffered to and found fault with.
No high horse at all. I did read your posts and your comments about Sandy Holt are exactly why I gave it some serious thought and posted what I did. I''ve spent a fair bit of time in the fight game and over the years I've had lots of contact with fighters both young and old. I've learned to take into account the achievements of the older fighters and the contributions they made for those of us that are younger than them. I was responding to the way in which your referred to Sandy Holt and how it was primarily derogatory. Which was exactly why I brought up the issue of the contribution he's made to the UK fight scene and why that should be recognized and respected. Your comments pointed to the things he wanted to do and I corrected that and pointed out there wasn't much 'want' about it... he by and large 'did'. An important distinction. I don't need to go to there to speak with Sandy in person to recognize the contribution he and others have made. Which is exactly what I refer to in my posts. I'm actually a member of that forum and have been for some time though I rarely post there I'm on it rather regularly.Again the point being whatever you feel Sandy Holt's character faults are his contribution to the fight scene in the UK is undeniable. The fact that he's talked the talk and walked the walk is what it is and deserves respect. That's not a very hard concept to understand. Nice way to assume a lot. You know what they say about assumptions. You frankly don't have any idea who or know or what I've done in regards to fighters or the fight business so really just ease off on the assumptions - they look well silly. What I've posted has everything to do with the comments you posted. It was the main motivating factor for me to bring up his contributions to the sport and the scene in the UK. Like I said you certainly entitled to you opinion of him but the fact that he deserves a modicum of respect for his contribution to the fight scene is right where it's at. Further more that opinion might be better off and slightly more defensible if it was well informed. Again... you're entitled to ignore that entirely but that's on you and you can't really expect to come on and bad mouth someone who's been in the fight game and fought as much as he and then not get called on it. It doesn't work like that. When you're functioning under the misunderstanding that "He's like peter pan, a wee boy who wanted to be a big bad fighter and never grew up...." it's entirely ludicrous to frame it as he wanted o... he didn't just want... he did it... it's fact... gone down in history. He did become a fighter that was top ranked and right up there with the rest of his generation. Needles to say... it's very silly to be pointing the finger in that manner until you've walked a mile in those shoes yourself. You don't have to like Sandy Holt... I'm not asking you to be his best friend or play footsie with him. But when the trash talking starts and it's ill informed you gotta know that someones going to call you on it. That's where I came in. Anywho I don't expect you to take any of that on board. Once someone get's their shirt up it's not like they're going to hear any of it. It's a worthy topic for a thread in it's own right at some point perhaps.
Yep. He's part of a group of friends and colleagues that worked on the doors for some time here in HK. He's got great stories. But most of the time he'd be the last to tell you. When I walk into the gym if I here someone lumping heavy handed body shots into the bag... I can almost always guarantee it's Trimble at work. I still wouldn't tangle with. Not for love nor money.
He He same old Tony!. I remember his first ever KickBoxing fight,it was over in seconds,he came out in Rnd 1 swept his opponent and stomped him in the head one time for a knock out and a disqualification! it was a move he had practiced from Wado Ryu Karate thousands of times unfortunatly it was illegal in the KickBoxing ring!
ahahhaha... golden insight. This is going into my upcoming interview with him. He worked on the door here for a long time and was never last to come in swinging if things went haywire. He's got a reputation for putting guys down with an open handed slap. Ouch.
He He nice one Slip,Im glad Im a long way away from Hong Kong so he cant slap me for letting that story out of the bag!
When the trash talking starts and it's ill informed? wtf are you on about? Where did I say ANYTHING that wasn't my own personal opinion of sandy holt? where did i refer to his skills as a fighter or coach? Soo as you can point out where I did those things then mmaybe you've got a point but bottom line is I have a personal dislike for someone based on personal reasons and I have every right to both hold and state that fact. I also have every right to expect NOT to get calledo n that by someone who thinks he knows a lot more about the subject than he actually does. Maybe once you've spoken to the man a few times or have any sort of personal feeling towards him then you have the right to call me on it but you don't. I actually don't even know why you're trying to call me for something I didn't do about a guy you don't even know. It just seems liek you're trying to pick a fight. And never ever again lecture me about british thai boxing - I know a hell of a lot more than you think
Calling someone a wee man who wanted to be a big bad fighter and referring to them as Peter Pan when in reality they were at the top of the fight game of their era... IS trash talking. It flat out implies that you don't have any respect for what they achieved or contributed to the fight game. The dismissive attitude labeled as opinion is still a dismissive attitude. My guess it you wouldn't refer to Sandy like that to his face. Nor would you stand in front of him and start referring to him as a wee man who was left wanting... lol... nor would you be calling him Peter Pan would you. For someone that knows so much about the fight game as you claim I find it curious that you seemed oblivious to Sandy Holt's contribution to the scene in the early days of the British fight scene. Oblivious how? Because your entire attitude is dismissive of him and your made a direct reference to his fighting... as in.... he was left wanting. Well wake up call... anyone who's followed the fight scene for long enough knows Sandy Holt fought a respectable number of fights against decent opponents, was top ranked and generally accounted for himself in the fight game. Pointing that out when it's bleeding obvious by the posts that you either didn't know about his place in that era of British fighting or willfully ignored it... isn't picking a fight. lol. That's pointing out that there is another historically sound and factually based perspective. Not one based on anecdote and being dismissive or derogatory. Come on then.... back up your comments. Simple as right? Let's hear it... Given Sandy's fight career... number of bouts (wins/losses/draws) and the titles he's held, the ranking he's had and who he's stepped in the ring against... how is he left wanting to be a big bad fighter? What part of his fight career is so inconsequential that you can draw the simplistic conclusion you have? Have you fought Sandy? Have you fought anywhere near the number of bouts he has? Have you held the ranking or titles he has? Have you worked ever worked with him in any capacity? Have you ever worked with him on promotions? We'll wait....
Lol wait wait wait, before this goes any further mate. When did I make any dierect reference to him as a fighter other than saying he must've wanted to be a big bad fighter when he grew up? Lol sort yourself out mate and stop picking fights for the sake of it. Bottom line is you go on ax you can talk with virtually every person who's worth talking to in british thai boxing on a 1 to 1 basis. Liam Harrison for instance must spend at least an hour a day posting on the damn thing. And it is rather obvious, judging from what they say, that they don't hold him in particularly high regard. No I wouldn't say these things to sandy. As I said before, I don't like him - I actually feel sorry for him. And my fight record or whatever has nothing to do with what I think about sandy. Especially since what I actually said and what you're tring to start a fight about aren't even the same things. A think the wee guy's got a lot of personal issues and I don't like him personally. I've also met him personally on a number of occassions and speak with him on a regular basis. I have personal experiences with sandy holt. You, by comparrison, are some guy who posts on MAP a ridiculous amount of times, DOESN'T contribute to the undoubtedly BEST western forum on thai boxing (wonder if that's because it's easy to lord it over people on here when there aren't many who know what they're talking about whereas ax is a whole different ball game) and DOESN'T have ANY experience, personal or otherwise of sandy holt. So frankly, my opinion of sandy and the reasons for it is none of your damn business and putting words in my mouth to try and justify your decision to atart a fight is rather sad, pathetic and childish. I don't claim to be the best or even necesseraly a very good fighter, but I know theres a lot of the best coaches/fighters AND promoters in this country who know who I am because we move in the same circles. You, I aint heard of till I came on MAP. So iff we're gettin really down to it mate. IF you want to start attacking me personally, because it seems that you DO have an issue with me for some reason, why don't you justify to me what your pedigree is, where you're from, who you've fought and how my opinions are any of your god damn business before you even decide to reply to one of my comments for no good reason.
I've posted my response so that before you read it... you have ample choice to hit the ignore button. It might be your best option. It's going to save you a lot of grief. If not... and you just can't resist... then read on: The direct reference you made is exactly that. The implication is clear. Because I point out that your talking trash about him doesn't mean I'm picking fights... it just means you don't like someone calling you on what comes off as your inability to understand his contribution to the UK fight scene in years past... or the fact that he did actually amount to something in the fight game. Nothing more... nothing less. The facts are in direct contradiction to your 'opinion'. Fair enough but I didn't take an issue with anyone one Ax... I took the issue with what you said. That's why I pointed it out and we're still on about it. Then it'd be a whole lot more fair to say you personally don't like the guy instead of trying to paint it as he never managed anything in his fight career. Which is exactly what you did. It really can't be spelled out any more clearly than that. If you have personal issues with him - that's up to you... but to say he was left wanting when in fact he actually wasn't and it can be verified by his fight record etc. It's a cut and dry case painting someone in a bad light that isn't necessarily true just because you have personal issues with him. Very poor form. See above. Well tell you what... Before you start to cry some more about this... you are aware there is an ignore button here at MAP. If you don't like what I post or the amount that I post no one has forced you to read it. No gun to your head... no one binding you by contract to waste your time reading it... So really... do yourself a favor before you work up any more angst and stress and simply hit the ignore button. Simple no?:hat: Meh... there are only so many hours in the day to post on forums. I've thrown in my chips here at MAP. Sue me or cry me a river... either way it means little. Counter the posts with something that is factual and better written. If not just stop crying. lol... you frankly haven't got a clue what personal experience I do or don't have. It's irrelevant anyhow because it doesn't take personal experience of someone to know better than to run on about how they haven't amounted to anything when the factual record is otherwise. Yawn. You'll have to do better than that. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion. Even if the implication is not based in reality. Good for you. I'm happy for you. I really am. You're a real player. Slick. I however must have missed the part where anyone was asking about this. Again... yawn. Get your panties knotted much when someone pokes holes in your argument? Seems to me this type of post is the last refuge of someone who's not got a leg to stand when their original argument starts to fall apart. If you don't like someone critiquing what you post then you're always welcome to simply not post of if you think your ego or your feelings or whatever might get hurt by it. You're posting on a public forum... so grow up and realize that you're going to get called on what you post from time to time. Are you upset? Are your feathers ruffled? Pfffttt.... like I said if you don't like what I'm posting in regards to your posts... then well... it's really too bad so sad.
I'll repeat this again because it seems to be the whole crux of the matter: I did not say a word about sandy's fighting career. I know full well what he contributed. I said he was like peter pan because he acts like a little kid in a 60 year old body. a little kid who wanted to be a big bad figher when he grew up. Now sandy did fight at the top of the level IN BRITAIN, in those days but that's irrelevant to what I said. Go back and read my post again another few times - i never even implied anything abotu sandy's fight record. But to set the record straight he just wasn't that good. full stop. I dread to think of some of the bad things todays fighters would've done to him in his prime. THATS me talking about sandy's fight record. Now frankly I AM gonna ignre the rest of the comments because I think you're putting words in my mout hthat I didn't say. Until you can prove to me why you're somebody who should be listened to I don't give a rats donkey. I aint heard of you and you aint forwarded any details, funny that. Till then mate, you're just a nobody who's foolin a bunch of people on a general martial arts forum that you're a big bad fighter.
lol... if that is the case why are your panties so knotted? If you have issues with what I post here at MAP then jump right in champ and challenge the assertions or the arguments I put forth. If not then stop your crying and get in touch with the ignore button. You will sleep better. Trust me on this. :hat:
Slip's right. Saying he's a Peter Pan is saying he's never grown up. Saying he wanted to be a big bad fighter when he grew up is saying that he never became a fighter because he never grew up. I know exactly what you mean about Sandy Holt. As my mum would say "He's got two-bob on himself". I don't think I could be around him that much. But I don't think you can really question his time in the fight game.
If that's the way you've taken what I said then I can understand -it's not how I meant it however. I didn't mean anything to do with his fight career. As you know, he IS like a wee boy who's never really grown up.
