Difference between Karate and Semi Contact Pointfighting?

Yeah I never liked the garbage that is British Judo Association and I don't intend wasting my money on joining BJA; they pair kyu and dan grades into one category during competition so the newbs have no chance and the dan grades get at least 1 easy match. In judo i've competed at 3 interclubs and 1 proper BJA tournament; i've never won in judo (I had a draw at the interclub and at my latest interclub I lost only by decision and that's because I was doing a knuckle choke without the gi covering, was squatting when I attempted a choke while he was down and because I pushed him off the tatami).
I don't think it matters if it isn't 'true' Tenjin Shinyo Ryu; we call our club Goshin Jitsu but at the end of the day, our Sensei was taught by amazing people.

I LIKE wrestling so I want to do it; I struggle but I like MMA and pro wrestling and the workout from wrestling so I want to do it. Statistically I did better at point fighting but due to the latter being a joke compared to karate (still awaiting an explanation on WHY it split from karate kumite/shobu ippon and why MT/K-1 people think the former sucks) so I want to do karate but as stated, I need more information on difference in scoring/contact etc.

 

Seriously I give up.

Man up, stop complaining, and trying to take the easy route.

 

At the end of the day, this is fighting and about enhancing your skills to fight in real life or to be the TRUE champion; I don't like how people say 'different rulesets' or 'apples to oranges'. WUKO fighters have gone and beat up Muay Thai fighters and vice versa (in Lumpinee,Rajadamnern and WKA competitions when they used to be televised); you can't say the same for champions in semi contact/light continuos kickboxers. Now that K-1 league and UFC have come along, karateka have gone into that (Smit,Hug,Machida bros,Liddell,GSP).

Kickboxing and Tae Kwon Do titles won by not even hitting the opponent full force are nothing compared to karate/Muay Thai/full contact kickboxing titles (YES I KNOW karate isn't full contact but it's either bare knuckle or without headguards). Point fighters keep stating Raymond Daniels and Michael Page yet they are not even good at MMA OR fought a K-1 style kickboxer. In fact, all of these Martial Arts Illustrated guys talk how freestyle or Lau Gar is amazing yet Lau Gar NEVER fought K-1 or full contact (Pele Reid did and he LOST). I think that's quite silly bragging about winning in fighting competitions that you don't even hit hard in and mentioning point fighting and semi contact as 'sport karate' is an insult to karate.

I've found a couple of karate clubs in Nottingham. Does the Wado Ryu club at Nottingham Trent Uni do competition? Is the Sikh Temple wrestling still on, if so, how much?

The problem with the TAGB club is the video I saw on the homepage-I don't want to do that type of fighting simply because the hand techniques look awful!!!

http://www.nottingham-tagb.co.uk/index.php

As i've said previous times and Mooesy has replied to once, I want to know the reason karate and kickboxing split and why the latter's point fighting is pretty awful. Particularly, a while ago a user that i've mentioned said that semi contact/l continuos is a waste of time compared to Muay Thai-I ignored him at first and I wanted to succeed at semi/light contact and THEN fight full contact/K-1 style to make a judgement BUT since I was kicked out and I can't go to these comps now because I don't want to lose to such troublemakers and charlatans. Was the user into MT/K-1 right all along r.e. paper titles and useless fighting formats because I can't name any point fighters or light contact champions winning in K-1/Lumpini or Rajadamnern or Zuffa MMA-your view (and no, NOT WCL because WCL is a mixture of good and awful fighters).

 

As good as your answers were, this thread was never about me 'manning up' or '"taking the easy route"- I wanted to know why karate and kickboxing point fighting is so different and why the latter's scoring is so lax. I also wanted to know if people were right r.e. light continuos/point fighting titles being a joke since I can't name any champions in point fighting/light continuos succeeding in K-1,MMA or beating a Muay Thai fighter from Thailand.

 

I'm not trying to be a *Richard* here but nobody except Moosey have expanded on the difference between karate point fighting and kickboxing point fighting and why the semi/light contact champions have not had success in K-1/MT/MMA. Was there a reason the point scoring became so bad and why they padded themselves up SO MUCH compared to karate?

 

Or personal enjoyment.

You seem to care a lot about these wins and losses, and that would be fair if you were competing at a high level, but you aren't. At low level you need to enjoy yourself, gain some competition experience, and to give it your best shot. And it might suck that you had to compete against a Dan grade when you are just starting off, but you should embrace the challenge, give him a tough match and go for some attacks. And if you don't win, it's no problem you weren't expected to anyway.

Other than that I don't see what the issue is. You want to do MMA, great there's an MMA club at uni and in town. Want to do wrestling, there's a club for that too. Want to do Karate, great Mitch has suggested there's Knockdown places and Tae kwon do if you want something more like that.

If you don't like a sporting rule set you don't have to compete under it. You can't expect a guy to spend his time training for rule-set X then cross over to rule-set Y and be better than guys who spent all their time training for that rule-set.

 

Replies in bold

 

Are you actually looking for something that is going to improve your self defence skills, or something that is going to make you a better full contact fighter, because while there are overlaps the two aren't the same.

 

Both-I personally believe competition is best for self defence (you get used to taking hits and you get fitter,faster and more powerful).

With regards to K-1 league, imao that is the best for stand up fighting BECAUSE lots of different stand up styles do it AND it caters for all: leg kicks/knees suit the Muay Thai and San Shou guys while the lack of elbows or clinch mean Western Kickboxers have a chance and like I said, WUKO guys beat, and got beat by, Muay Thai fighters.

 

I agree, in the absence of a club that gives you lots of hard haov training, it is your next best option.

 

Regarding Sikh Temple Wrestling.
According to BWA it would seem that way.

http://www.britishwrestling.org/clu...ling+Club&section=29&sectionTitle=Find+a+Club

 

Back now, just wanted to let you know how I was getting on,

studying at Nottingham Trent Uni and doing Wado-Ryu karate (taught by Sensei Tony Baker) and Shorinjikan Ju Jitsu (taught by William Kett)

http://www.jitsufoundation.org/JuJitsu.asp?Page=Are_you_starting_jujitsu

one thing I don't seem to like with either is how you're meant to keep one arm to the side of the hip as opposed to using it as a guard. In Wado-Ryu they seem to emphasise punching with relaxed shoulders and using the hips and tricep. Another annoying thing is that you can twist into punches but not pivot on feet- has anyone experienced that?

I'm doing these 2 things as i'm a student so it's cheaper as they're Uni clubs and because the karate in Nottingham that competes regularly is not accessible to me and the wrestling doesn't seem to be on.

Also, I heard Alfie Lewis, Clifton Findley and Kevin Brewerton did WUKO karate before doing Lau Gar and freestyle.
Nathan Lewis, Neville Wray, Humphrey Broomes and the others however, did not. I know i'm generalising here but the only good 'point fighters' did WUKO and crossed over into full contact/fought against MUAY THAI fighters (Benny Urquidez won a few fights that way- Bill Wallace and Chuck Norris did judo like Benny so would do well in MMA).

I assume the whole sticking-hands-down and score with a jumping backfist came from freestyle since karate doesn't score anything that's not from stance or move the opponent. Unfortunately freestyle fighting seems to have made even Clifton and Alfie worse because i've seen them doing that.

Not happy learning new styles/changing as i've yet to master the ones I was doing before but the clubs are good. Has anyone else experienced that? Differing ways to punch/kick or even guard (actually in my old JJ club we also had to keep one arm to the side)?

 

Point fighting is a good training tool, but I don't personally like it as a competition type thing. It just doesn't show who the better fighter is at all (although this shouldn't be a concern in karate). I'm fairly good at it just because of my general style, I tend to be hard to hit, but I far prefer continuous higher contact sparring.

 

Ronki,

It is really dependent on what you want out of your training. Why do you keep training at places that do stuff you don't like? It would seem to me that you would be better to just go down to a MMA club where you will get to do as much striking or grappling at a contact level you are happy with?

http://www.youtube.com/user/pldmma

These guys were involved with training Dan Hardy and Michael Bisping. Might be worth a look.

Otherwise take a peek here : http://www.clubbz.com/find/nottingham/MMA/clubs/1

It would seem a lot easier than going through all this stuff that you don't seem to like and doesn't provide the product you seek.

Just sayin'

LFD

 

I'm a firm believer in competition because it was a wake up call getting up to belt 4 (then 5 out of 10) in kickboxing and still winning seconds or thirds every other competitions at LOCAL NOVICE level :/ I want to compete lots and since i'm already used to semi contact/ light continuos, I can move onto karate and full contact Western easier. I just want to be good at fighting and win titles in a fighting sport that works in real life (so no, NOT semi contact or light continuos as few have gone into MMA or K1- WUKO/WKF/JKA karate however, has good fighters who fought across disciplines).
It also doesn't help that the Cobra Kai from my home town go to kickboxing comps like WAKO/WKA/ISKA so it's easier to switch styles (karate seems more legit anyway).

I'm sure one day i'll manage to get my physique and win some titles in legitimate fighting- both are down to slow progress and but the latter is from idiots from other clubs or idiotic organisations ruining opportunities for me

Has anyone ever done several martial arts at once but each style making you punch/kick their way? In Ju Jitsu we're not meant to punch like a boxer or with hands up, in Wado we relax the shoulders and punch from hip yet with relaxed shoulders we're meant to keep guard up, Judo looks down Wrestling and vice versa, today one of the students at Ju Jitsu says karate 'sucks' because there's no groundfighting and striking arts look down on grappling arts and vice versa.
It's getting annoying sticking up for one art because the lepers don't listen from either side.

 

i feel as though "cool story bro" is the appropriate reply to this thread.

getting into MMA/full/semi/quarter/potato contact is simple - go to an MMA/full/semi/quarter/potato contact club to train that specialises is the part of the game your most interested in and develop tactics towards that.

i've done a couple of grappling styles at once and its hard but its part of the process, an MMA club makes that easier:
choose something, stick to it, shut up and train, eat, sleep and train some more. when you have doubt go to training and have them punched/kicked/thrown/broken out of you and most importantly, keep quiet and be bloody humble to the people trying to help you develop

 

Cool story bro, when I lose I just tend to blame my own practise and try to improve.

Your approach is so much better........ for the ego.