Did James Mitose, really go to Japan?

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by BGile, Feb 12, 2007.

  1. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    You misunderstand me. Concept and reverse punch are two different things. The concept is hitting, the reverse punch is only one possible illustration of hitting.
     
  2. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    "We're" not going to say it, Juchnik, Arquilla and Sedeno said it. That part is hardly in dispute any longer. Mitose sat at a picknic lunch table with these guys and would occasionally stand to illustrate something with gestures etc. He wasn't running a dojo in prison.
     
  3. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Dan

    True he was not running a dojo...But some received more hands on training than others if you only went a couple of times toward the end and just prior to his death, then it would be true, you received less information than the one principle in this whole equasion, which is Bruce Juchnik.

    Yes, the concept of something is different, but to be able to conceive the reverse punch, is not a real biggie in Mitose's art. The biggie is in the Octagon and the drills that most don't teach. Nor do they do. Heck they don't even do the same Nai Han s/chi Kata.

    If you did not do the drills in JKD you would not be doing what is about 75% of the art.

    The Kenpo that came from Chow to Parker to the Tracy's is not what Mitose taught. Remember the term Kata and the lack of it?

    Last but not least Bruce also trained with Terry Lee. Not well known, but true, or it is mentioned by the Hanshi.

    Gary
     
  4. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Well, firstly Mitose didn't invent the reverse punch. So I'm not sure where you;re going with that one.

    Secondly, the octagon is part of the Kajukenbo coat of arms and it's concepts ARE taught.

    Thirdly, Terry Lee is a murdering scumbag, so who cares who trained with him. Doesn't speak well of Juchnik if he really trained with that piece of crap.
     
  5. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    The octagon as taught in Kosho is much different than what is taught in Kaji.

    Bruce was on a fact finding mission, and he saw and talked to Terry Lee (after he was released and paid his debt to society). I have to agree with you about him being a piece of guano though.

    Many in the upper north of USA and Canada follow Terry Lee's art as we speak.

    But to say all persons in various MA organization's have not commited some crimes and heinious ones also, is pure naiveness. I just read in the Book Kara-Ho by GM Sam that Chow killed someone in a fight :confused: not the same at first glance but who know's we were not there... Sid was to have killed a man also. In todays world I am not so sure they would not have gone to the slam. Heck someone killed Joe Emperado and he did not go to jail, conflicting testimony and what some have said, out and out lies confused many about that murder.

    John has mentioned in the past that he felt because of hairs etc. at the scene Mitose might have been the hit man. I doubt it though.

    Next Juchnik was searching for the truth and went to locations where others did not go. That is the reason he is the Hanshi of his particular system/style.
    If it was not for his diligence Mitose would have died in prison and never been brought back into the limelight he is in today. IMHO...Guess we can call Hanshi a bad guy for going to Folsom and talking to Mitose...

    So when I give you some information about how diligent Hanshi was in going about his research you want to attack him...Pretty lame IMHO..

    The reverse punch information/arguement about Mitose not inventing it... No kidding :rolleyes:

    Gary
     
  6. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    "Kaji"? I take you mean Kajukenbo? HOw would you know what is taught in Kajukenbo?

    Paid his debt? Whatever.


    And your point is?

    You're seriously comparing Terry Lee to Sid Ascuncion?


    Okay.....

    What information did you give me that I didn't already have?


    You're starting to drift again Gary.
     
  7. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    1)Kaji I take you mean Kajukenbo? How would you know what is taught in Kajukenbo?

    1a)I have several books (Frank Bianchi) and was taught some long ago, been to many seminars put on by people who are in Kajukenbo. We actually practice other schools art at times to see the best way to counter. :confused: Don't you do that? If not why not???

    They have katas and it has been mentioned many times the similarity of them with other katas on so many talk forums it is not that difficult to know, one thing that is interesting is the Nai Han Shi kata is pretty much taught last??? Or put it this way it has a high number. Interesting, since that was one that was taught on the Islands first.

    2)Paid his debt? Whatever.

    2a)I agree but that is the way the law looks at it...Has changed since I was a LEO.


    3)And your point is?

    3a)Terry Lee teach's martial arts in the area I am speaking of. Not much can be done, if they allow it, I figure. Not that I would attend.


    4)You're seriously comparing Terry Lee to Sid Ascuncion?

    4a)Not a comparison at all, if you think it is, it is in your mind alone looking for an arguement I'd figure. (Anything to distract topic). But some would, use it for a comparison. Taking a life is not santioned by many for any reason. Why many of todays parents are put off by FMA the weapons and bragging rights.

    5)What information did you give me that I didn't already have?

    5a)Your answer about Hanshi studing with Terry Lee seemed, clearly a shock...

    6)You're starting to drift again Gary.

    6a)Not me amigo, just tit for tat.

    Regards,

    Gary
     
  8. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    That's what I thought. Look Gary, I realize that most of your martial arts experience has come from attending seminars and reading books. But the problem with that is that it's very incomplete. People do not put on seminars to convey the whole art to those in attendance. You can't just go to a few of them and really understand the art. Same goes for books. Take John Bishop's book for example. It only has a sampling of the techniques in it. It gives you the flavor, but not the meal itself. It's like when you go to the mall and they hand you a toothpick with a piece of chicken on it to entice you. Kajukenbo is never going to be an art that is taught via video or book. There are always going to be aspects of it that you are not going to get unless you come in and train live.

    Nihanchi Shodan was the base for our Palama set/Pinan 11. There are three forms that are taught after it, so no it's not taught last. There are no forms taught after green belt because Kajukenbo is a technique-based art, not a form-based art. Even the forms (#11 aside) are derived from the techniques rather than the other way around.

    You compared them. In fact, yo compared them in such a way as to make it seem like the only difference between them was that Terry Lee had bad timing. When you say that "taking a life is not sanctioned for many reasons" you are comparing someone that killed an elderly couple over money with those that are fighting others in a combat situation. Some of our countries Founding Fathers fought in duels of honor (Hamilton etc.) and while that is not sanctioned in todays' wimpy world, it was never looked on as the same thing as someone breaking into someones house and murdering them.
     
  9. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned


    Danjo you are being very foolish here and talking to someone who has been in the arts longer than you have been born.

    My son is a black belt his sons are now going through the same process.
    I have a grandson ( the oldest) who is a person who has taken much schooling through the Kosho schools. My son who passed away in 99 was into the arts.

    I have known Pat Kelly since 1991 my son taught Kosho for Pat.

    He is an accomplished Martial arts person. I am his father, I have known Hanshi Bruce before the 90's. I am a person that has been around many people who are very accomblished, I listen I impart I train even to this day 3 or more days a week.

    Danjo you are showing your inability to focus. If you were my student I'd just say Duh, and give you the door, for you are unable to conceptulize my statements.

    That is the difference between many of the arts. To conceive and then to perform.

    It is rudementary martial arts and redundant at that. Just look at the elementary way Ed Parker taught 5-7 swords on each person standing in the line.

    Mitose talks about it in his writings. So does Musashi. You are lame...Big time.

    I feel sorry for John for you are not that sharp. To bad, but you have proven it so many times, it is time to just accept the fact and move on I guess? ;)

    Now you are schooling me in Law Enforcement LOL..
    Reminds me of another who just got the transcript and is schooling me about it...I've had it for years Dan... Not only that but all who were reading the post between he and John knew it...What a flake...

    Defense and offense, not much difference in the eyes of someone who considers a block a strike, huh?

    Yes, Terry Lee was a murderer, got a couple of years and Mitose got life, HMMM

    Last but not least you have not mentioned much about family but when men and sons teach and train, one gives and one gets, sometimes it is the older doing the training, and sometimes it is the younger. Some arts have been said to 'being conceived by watching animals fight'... I think you need to get out more Danjo and experience what a father and grandfather has done for over 40 years just with the kids. I have a grandaughter who can show you why dancing is a way of training and teaching a martial art. LOL

    You and I have to quit this Dan, you are just to slow.

    Gary
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2007
  10. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    One of the funniest posts I have ever read. I'm not even going to touch this one.
     
  11. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Alright, I'll touch it after all. I had to wait a bit so that I could be somewhat more civil and not just sarcastic.

    Okay Gary, this sounds to me more like you've been around the martial arts since before I was born, not in them. Unless you can show some sustained instruction and achievement in that long period of time. No offense, but there's a difference.

    Oh Brother.

    ??? I'm not sure I see what you mean by difference. Some martial arts concieve and others perform?

    Mitose and Musashi talk about what? Parker teaching five swords, or me being lame?


    Did you get this from Mitose and Musashi too?



    How am I schooling you in Law Enforcement? Are you referring to me pointing out that a duel fought between two men in the Phillipines is not the same as someone breaking into a house and murdering an elderly couple? they may both be illegal these days, but there is not a moral equivelance IMO.

    Who attacked someone with a block. Did I miss something here?

    I would say IS a murderer. He didn't become not a murderer merely by serving a couple of years in prison.

    Well, my grandfathers are dead and my father lives in Illinois and doesn't practice the martial arts. How old is your grandaughter?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2007
  12. Henso

    Henso New Member

    There is one rumor that concerns Mitose's supposed return to Japan that I know is not true - his purported learning of Wada-ha Koga-ryu Ninjutsu and Nanban Satto-ryu Kempo - from Fujita Seiko. See the details below:

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Please be advised that the above title that I wrote and was published in February 2008, deals with the career of Fujita Seiko and his connections, real or imagined, to numerous individuals, including James Mitose. A chapter on Nanban Satto-ryu Kempo, specifically deals with the supposed relationship, detailing the particular attributes of the art and those who are recorded in official Japanese texts such as the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten, as having learned the art.

    Anyone interested in my work can find it at this link: http://www.amazon.com/Fujita-Seiko-Phillip-T-Hevener/dp/1436301769/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214353036&sr=1-1>

    I invite you all to post reviews - critical or otherwise - once you have read the book.

    Regards,

    Phillip T Hevener
     
  13. Hapki-jutsu

    Hapki-jutsu Valued Member

    to be quiet honest...most figures in the history of hawaiian kempo or one of its variants is/was a liar or shady in some way or another. there's alot of shady business. how they used to go pick fights to test techniques (similar to choki motobu)...
    there's also alot of rumor and heresay....someone actually told me for example that Wally Jay took up jujutsu in order to train his gang!
    chow says he learned kung fu from his father...but there isn't much if any evidence that his father even knew any kung fu. yet a chinese influence in the various kempo arts cannot be ignored.
    sijo emperado is said to have been a leg breaker for organized crime himself by some people.
    i thought eugene sedeno (along with kimo ferreira) was mainly a student of walter godin?

    ultimately it don't much matter....the fact is hawaiian kempo if any faction has some seriously tough dudes now...then...and in the future. ed parker was a tough guy, and one of his students told me he spoke very highly of adriano emparado's fighting abillity...said "he's a tough nut, and a brutal fighter"

    others still have told me that adriano didnt really have that much training at all, and that his brother joe was really the main mastermind behind their kempo..before it was called kajukenbo.

    who's to say?
     
  14. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    I think that rumor belongs to Sonny Gascon, since he was a union organizer. Or as one of his students described him as "a leg breaker for the union".

    Yes, Eugene was a student of Walter Godin, and also Abe Kamahoahoa, and Sid Asuncion, and Rick Alemany. Very talented martial artist.

    Yes, he along with Wally Jay, Joe Holck, and several others talked about Emperado being the best street fighter they ever saw.

    Well, Joe was 14 when Adriano introduced him to boxing. A few years later Adriano introduced him to kenpo. Joe was only 18 when Adriano and the other 4 founders started formulating Kajukenbo.
    When he left Prof. Chow's school with his brother he was only a green belt, while his brother Adriano was a 5th degree. Everything Joe learned in boxing, kenpo, and kajukenbo, he learned from Adriano.

    Those who were there. And some of them are still around.
     
  15. Hapki-jutsu

    Hapki-jutsu Valued Member

    so does that mean it's true that he was a leg breaker?

    it just seems that there are alot of conflicting stories even among those who were there. some of what i mentioned came (albeit indirectly) from sedeno, and godin or one of their students.

    do you have any info about how daniel k pai works into all of this? i've heard he was hawaiian and used to train with ed parker alot but that he claims to have learned alot of other things ...but its questionable whether he did or not.

    do you think chow actually learned any kung fu from his father? some have told me he didnt, yet i wonder where some of the forms the tracy's do came from.
     

Share This Page