being able to have an opinion, without being shouted down. being able to stand up for whats right, without being told how wrong you are. defending my motives.
Surely the first two depend upon other people's honor? Or at least their integrity or level of civilisation. As for me, I'd agree with Kwajman and say honesty. I'd also expand it to include living with an attitude of fairness and equality.
ideals/codes I live by when these are infringed or you must reconcile with others sense of honour -this is were (for me) expediency comes in. (flexability - in psin's case ) Does honour not reflect our ego then? So to get along we must have a similar sense of honour - which by and large I think people do. Unless of course they have irrational ideals.. Sometimes we must forego our ego for tha sake of expedience, and other times we must stand up for the principles we live by..
'Thou shalt not shoplift' Shoplifting is for scumbags. Everything else is open to interpretation. I'm an FMAist ferchristsake!
shoplifting is not the only thing that is irrational though is it. No need to interpret anything if you are of a rational mind you will just know - won't you? when you break it down though ( I think I know what you're getting at) self preservation is the only thing worth fighting for. If someone steals from someone else, should it concern you? If they stole from you, it would only concern you if your ego was attached to the material. So? do you slice off his hand or give him a wry smile and let him go on his way, knowing he has really gained nothing from you? Take your stuff back, give em a slap, and tell em next time I'll chop off your hand, or stick you in jail you poor misgiuded little miscreant. Or is everything a free for all?
OK.... well The biggest problem in this society is working out your own moral structure. So many things that we claim as our own personal virtues are those which society has imprinted upon us from an early age. We live in a policed society where very often to adhear to the law is not an expression of virtue but one of self preservation. Would your moral structure still be the same if these social constraints were removed, or would you be more willing to forgive yourself the odd misdeed? The problem with human beings is our ability to live in denial, and our capacity to justify things according to our own opinions. Take the world's past and present dictators for example. I feel you have to keep these things in mind when examining your own personal 'honour'.
*honour is a combination of honesty, benevolence, loyalty, justice, trust, compassion and love. *to have a code of honour is to treat not only others with this generalised respect but also yourself - after all, you can not grow if you are not nurtured! *to be honorable is to take action against that which is the opposite of this. all points together create a definition for me personally.
YEAH someone else gets it lol......I was waiting to read a silly reply about eatting at McDonalds or always remembering to brush ones teeth =p Our system teachs a long long long Bushido Code of honour. It also teaches how one can easily slip down a dark path thinking thier actions or ideas are in the right. But Basicaly having virtues of good and peace and love come in mind in ours. There is a teaching which alot of people shun at our school that goes something like this...but im not sure im wording it word for word. "If a man is angry and punches towards you Defend yourself If a man is violent and then graps you Throw him down. If a man threatens you with death then show him Peace. If a man comes to kill you Set aside emotions and kill him." Yeah alot of people read the last two and think its a contridiction like bible stories and verses. But it has deep meaning. Basicaly if a man is trying to hit or harm you its up to you do break his arm or throw him down and pound him, but if its a kill or be killed situation then you best put on your good Suit, because you're gonna be attending a funneral one way or another.
I respect your personal definition it is a fine one, and tells me you are a fine person. But I'll play a bit of devils advocate here if that's ok...I am enjoying your insightful posts very much btw. ----- Does that go for honour amongst theives too you can just as well say principles. I think of it more in terms of upholding rather than taking action (unless they are infringed) if it's personal honour we're talking about. Personal honour is about the set of principles you carry around. It is not a necessity to be compassionate, loving, trusting for example to be principled and have personal honour. Although these are v. good things to have. It is hard to classify honour as anything other than a set of principles that have few pre-requisites because imo by definition honour is individually applied. For example somebody can still be honourable whilst being selfish, unloving, not trusting, not interested in others justice, not compassionate - not loyal (as long there is honesty) -If someone is being loyal to themselves then ... loyalty is earnt - as long as you are honest you cannot be disloyal. I agree with your second point totally. For me the definition is - someone who sticks by their word & stands by their principles. honesty and to use non forceful means as far as possible. Less is more Kind regards geo
just a synonym for integrity. people love to know that someone will stick to what they said, but is this always a good thing? For example, what if 2 years ago you told a woman you'd always be with her. Things change though, and it's better to be fresh and spontaneous than stubborn, so long as the common ingredient is always 'respect'
Ha! You can play devils advocate if you wish Geo - am very much enjoying the challenge. Thank you for the lovely compliment, I must also respond by saying that I really enjoy reading your posts also! now... back to the game! I will keep myself to discussing Personal Honour only at this point, if for no other reason than to avoid confusing myself (it happens!!) This means that unfortunately i am going to bypass the "honour amongst thieves" idea at this time.... i like the use of the concept of principles in your arguement, however they do strike me as much like morals (hey, nothing wrong with morals!), but with less personal attachment to them and as such can be rationalised down to a logical and almost clinical way to define honour. personal honour for me is much more of an intrisic feeling. without honesty, trust, loyalty, benevolence, compassion, justice and love you can have whatever principles you would like to construct, but principles will not give you the impetus to do anything more than admire them. this is only my definition of personal honour, and for me honour is a way of being and doing - not just thinking. honour is a way of life and a sense of "right" that does not involve logic or emotions but instead offers a way to just "exist" or "be" that is reflected in every action or motion you make, so for me - it is more than just principles. Sorry Geo i just can't agree with you on that one, although i will concede that principles can be classified as an aspect or extention of honour and not the other way around!! "...A warrior lives by acting, not by thinking about acting, nor by thinking about what he will think when he has finished acting..." [insert bow] much respect to you sakura
"...Nature lives by acting, not by thinking about acting, nor by thinking about what she will think when she has finished acting..." There is no higher hounour than to live and die in accordance with nature. I bow to you
don't we die by nature whether we want to or not, even if its a guy who shoots us in the head, is he not a part of nature. i say this after just watchin the news for a few minutes and the were talking about this 25 year old who was shot and killed and said he had a 'promising future' and 'left us early' as if the future is promised to any of us and that we were told we had a certain amount of time to live for it to be cut short! i wish
Few of us can choose the nature of our deaths, but we can choose how we live in accordance with our own nature.
