So, without turning this into a flame war could someone explain to their thoughts on the use of the title of Datu? Respectfully your, Renegade
If people need a title, whatever it is, in order to feel respected then fine. A Jedi craves not such things :Angel:
HI, Ive trained with Kelly Worden and some of his folk for a while. That was my intro to the Filipino arts. I didnt know the history of the title then. Now that I have married a Filipina and have been training with a Filipino instructor and received a history lesson regarding the title of Datu, I can see how some peeeps could take offense. I think its a title given to muslim royalty on the Mindanao island and carried (carries?) a lot of weight and respect. Im not sure if there are any Datus left on the Phillippine islands. The title may still be in use in Indonesia and this is where you could be in for a world of hurt claiming you're a Datu. I think Ill leave it at that. Gord
The only legit "Datu" rank can only be given to you by the President of the Philippines through the Order of Sikatuna. To get one, you must be a highly accomplished statesman. And if you're a muslim royalty, you get the rank automatically.
''Datu'' is a respectful title. It's only given by the Sultan or he is one of the royal family. Like my great(16 times) grandfather, Datu Merpati Jepang. He's a royal but not anymore when it was the 5th or 6th generation(I think) because they no longer married to a royal. If it still is then I would have the title,if I'm not mistaken "Raden".
To people who don't understand the culture and language, any title given to them by their instructor seems fine but they should also consider what the meaning of the title is and what it may sound to the culture and people it comes from. Any FMA Martial artist would certainly get this if they were to use the title' DAtu" in the Philippines at the least and certainly would be challenged to back up their claim or justify the use of the title at the worst. It is no fault of the one being given the title but that of the instructor giving it without knowing the consequences to such use in the land or culture it came from. Silentblade pointed out very important points to consider. Such official titles should not be handed out so easily just because the instructor is Filipino or has found an interesting Filipino term, Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Modern Arnis to be the only one that uses this ranking structure? it would be like some other martial art handing out the title of King or Prince to so and so as a rank structure but King or Prince of what? Does it really matter? Probably only in the country and people it comes from. If the rank is to be handed out as a teacher then use "Guro" or Mataas na Guro or Punong Guro to show ascending levels. Even then , names and ranks really should not mean anything. On paper where it really shows how can you separate the really skilled form those who just bought their ranks? Most Anybody can buy them nowadays in some systems but this is nothing unique to just FMA but to all MA. Attend a few seminars here and there and presto!, The old Masters or practitioners never really used titles or curiculums, that seemed to have fallen into place with the introduction of commercialized Martial arts.
It's a well known fact that modern arnis used this term, I was just wondering if anyone else uses such terms for their FMA ranking system.
I'm happy that no one used the rank "Bayani" in FMA. The word "Bayani" means "Hero" in tagalog. The rank "Bayani" is only given by the President of the Philippines through the Order of Lakandula. (to the poster Bayani. im not talking about you okay? )
Kuntaw kali kruzada uses datu as a rank as does one branch of Escrima Serrada, both are Filam FMA organizations. I think its interesting to note that the FMA groups that seem to use and award datu as a rank are from the Visayas and may have no relationship to the context that its used in Mindanao and Sulu. I have seen datu given as a title in the southern P.I. but it was from someone in high standing in a paticular muslim community to an elder in another community. Datu could also be part of a persons name though I don't know the context behind it, I have a Maranao friend who has datu in his name and actually is a datu as well. So when you look at his name on paper it says datu twice. I also have a friend who has sultan in his name, but he was given this after converting to islam and being the personal bodygard to a middle eastern royal family.
Datu is also a title quite often used amongst the senior members of the Malay people. e.g. Royalty and Poloticians.
For the record. Modern Arnis does not use the Datu title for rank. Prof Presas awarded it to only 6 people in his organization over the years. This title was awarded to people who showed exceptional leadership traits and made major contributions to the art.
In order they were awarded in: 1. Shishir Inacallo - ??? 2. Kelly Worden - 1988 3. David Hoffman - ??? 4. Dieter Knuttel - ??? 5. Bong Jornales - ??? 6. Tim Hartman - 2000
I may be wrong, but I don't remember Escrima ever having to use titles. I mean, yes, one got his Grandmaster "rating" before like a pro boxer. As in, win/lose/draw ratio and all. But I think that FMA organizations just had to have titles to compete with all the other MAs suddenly becoming popular years ago. Karate had its belts, for instance. "Datu", arguably a very Filipino term of rank, was a natural choice. It's like, if ranks in WMA suddenly needed a sort of ranking title other than Scholler or Maestro, one would choose Duke or Count or Earl or something, something "European" sounding. IMO, notwithstanding that those who hold Datu rank may be well-meaning and effective martial artists with a great level of skill in FMA and in leadership, I think that the title should be slowly abandoned. For one thing, even if it becomes the highest rank in FMA, it still demeans the rank itself. Like what happened to the title of "King", for instance. Now we have titles like Cha-cha king, or Burger King, or Karate King. There are those rare times when it can become meaningful, like "King of the Ring" or "King of Pancrase". But not so often. There was some discussion of this in posts #17 to #31 in the Use of Short Staff in Arnis thread.
"For one thing, even if it becomes the highest rank in FMA, it still demeans the rank itself." Hi Pax, I hope you're well. Long time no chat! The problem is that there is NO highest rank in the FMA - especially where one is competing with other schools and styles for recognition. So, I may be a Master, so you decide to call yourself a Grandmaster. I then think OK, I'll call myself Datu. You think Oh thats a good one, I'll call myself Datu 4th Dan. Hell, why stop there. I'm going to call myself Datu 8th dan. No friend, with titles, the skies the limit.
Hello Doug! Kumusta po kayo? I am well, but much too busy for comfort. My fondest regards to you and your family. Your right, too. When the sky is the limit for title, they stop becoming meaningful. As it is, "Datu 8th dan" really sounds strange to my Filipino ears. It's like somebody claims a rank of President 8th Dan or Governor 5th Dan in American Karate. Sorry guys, but growing up, we know the term "Datu" as a hereditary political title. Plenty of Datus were warriors, yes, and pretty good ones. But its like ranking people as Presidents or Princes, or even "General" just because General Washington and Edward the Black Prince were terrific fighters. Pax.
I totally agree plus the fact that because there really is no solid body or Organization that can truely monitor quality then ranks or titles do not really hold much water . Going back to the use of Datu, while the intent was to give a high level title I believe it was a poor choice of word. Just like I said he should have used Guro. Mataas na Guro or Punong Guro as examples. Datu should not be used for a commercialized title of a martial art.
