dantain rotation

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by windwalker, May 31, 2022.

  1. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    Good explanation of what it means, with demonstrations

    Subtitles in English...

    Grond likes this.
  2. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    I feel like there is a disconnect between what he is saying and what the subtitles are translated as.
    From watching his demonstration, it seems like he's talking a bit about standing pole training, and verticle alignment.
    Without accurate translation it's hard to get the context of what he's talking about, though he makes a couple of nice observations.
  3. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    For those with questions seeking more clarification, the teacher is very open to answering in writing to post on the clips.

    Or even answering a post by, making a video clip .

    as here

    Grond likes this.
  4. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    I'm not sure where you want this discussion to go?

    Some pretty basic mechanics on display, but no real context to discuss them in?
    Grond likes this.
  5. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    There are questions asked by those who may not understand Chinese terminology as used by a native speaker practitioner of internal arts.

    This teacher offers both,,,giving a view from the other side of the mirror having to put his thoughts in English...

    Can one understand how hard this might be....?

    The point was that for some seeking clarification of what is presented, why not go to the Utube site and question the teacher directly...

    The 2nd clip was in answer to a question..maybe some questions posed to the teacher might prompt him to make a video addressing it..

    ya never know..

    As to the discussion in general, it might start with a simple observation on the 1st clip, as in it's not clear or one disagree's
    one could share their own view point...if not a clip..

    View this medium as a way to meet others practicing the same arts, sharing view points or just conversation on the subject matter..

    In the west, "dantain" not something acknowledged out side of those who practice internal arts from China...

    or is there an equivalent concept ?
  6. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    At least this guy is relatively fit and there's at least some resistance and force involved, rather than silly Qi tricks like that silly Milner finger blast video.

    I'd love to see these techniques used in a live sparring scenario, push hands competition, etc. I've been watching a lot of those lately, trying to spot different Tai Chi principles (which is getting easier thankfully, Tai Chi is pretty simple art much like boxing).

    I've learned enough Tai Chi at this stage to be dangerous to myself and others, but I do get a little tired of these kinds of videos that are showing nothing more than basic physics.
    Dan Bian likes this.
  7. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    Cool, looking forward to your video
  8. Nachi

    Nachi Valued Member Supporter

    This is more or less what I am training now. For the moment, though, we are trying to deal with steady, slowly increasing push, not a sudden one (thankfully). It has so many subtleties that I find hard to do well. I learn Chen style, so not sure if there are differences, but if so, I guess not huge ones.

    I've found out that the standing like a pole thing and the proper back alignment can indeed work wonders! It is much more effective in terms of standing my ground than I thought it would be. Or maybe because I am finally able to actually align my back a bit...

    o_O I don't share that sentiment at all... (though I don't know how hard boxing is). Or you're a natural :)
  9. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Video of what? I thought you wanted feedback on these videos.

    What would you like a video of?
  10. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    They are both based on very simple principles. Just like most people with a modicum of wrestling exposure is going to see these two videos and not be surprised or enlightened. It's basic stuff.

    The number of movements etc don't matter. Sure you can spend your whole life learning the forms, but the essentials come quickly. They should. Just like in boxing, you'll feel the art right away, theres no need to spend decades of your life to "get it". If you don't get how Tai Chi works in the first year, something is wrong. I know I'm not special, I just found a great instructor who values my time as much as his own.

    I can throw a jab a hundred ways, they're still all jabs. Tai chi forms have 13, 18, 24, etc movements. 108, doesn't matter they all narrow down to a handful of physical fundamentals. None of it is rocket science, and quite honestly I think the old people in parks illustrate this best:. Movement, balance, and breathing. Not much more to it. The physical framing stuff? That's been in wrestling cultures since the dawn of time.
    David Harrison and Dan Bian like this.
  11. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    A video that you feel addresses what you've mentioned...

    As noted,,,The teacher a native speaker, practitioner of Chinese internal arts, addresses questions and concepts that are talked about in China, from a Chinese perspective.

    With the advantage of having been born and brought up in the culture, addressing it in culturally based words / concepts directly...

    Thought this might be useful for those here who have not had the opportunity to train in China...

    The teacher typically builds his videos around a question then going on to share concepts in the answer

    Whether it's useful or not as in most things depends on the level of the viewer...

    To translate Chinese, into English is not easy .

    For some concepts there are no English equivalents that are understood in the same way. ...

  12. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Here's a guy who doesn't even do Tai Chi or speak Chinese ( he can't even pronounce Taiji Quan properly) give an excellent breakdown just by observing competition.

    As far as the "level of the viewer", I'm sorry, but neither of the videos you posted really require any sort of advanced understanding. It's all wrestling 101 stuff, like I said. High school kids in wrestling learn this stuff on day 1. When Tai Chi people start pretending it's somehow special or different, they seem to veer off into la la land. I'm not saying any of your videos are like that, but there's a lot of talk for so much little action.

    But as I said, at least the demo video you posted is believable, if mundane. I'll take real Tai Chi over fake Qi nonsense any day. Thankful I can recognize the difference now, too.

    Dan Bian likes this.
  13. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    You speak for all viewers ?

    The clips seem to be fundamentally different, my clips addressing a question sharing concepts as part of the answer,

    the clip you posted sharing some observations.

    If you feel taiji is not much different than grappling,,,for you it may not be...for others "myself" included it may be totally different...

    Different experiences, view points based on them...
  14. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    In your opinion, what's the difference between Taiji and wrestling? When you push your opponent, why don't you pull his leg at the same time?


    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
    Dan Bian likes this.
  15. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    Each are training clips, training different things....why would or should they be the same ?

    Methods, are trained...Tactics arise from the method

    Strategies used are based on tactics trained.
  16. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I always want to ask a Taiji person about this question. Does a Taiji guy share the same goal as a

    - wrestler - to take his opponent down?
    - boxer - to knock his opponent down?

    If the goal are

    - the same, the training method should be similar.
    - different, what is a Taiji person goal?
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
  17. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    Does it matter....

    The goal, should be to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible...

    You keep mentioning "method"

    seems confused...

    of course for some a GLOCK G17 works...
  18. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Just for the sake of discussion. What do you mean "neutralize the threat"?
  19. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    what would there be to discuss ?

    "neutralize" remove by any means, all options open

    best option not to engage...:)
  20. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    It's so funny that I ask the same question in another forum, "What's the difference between Taiji and wrestling?" Someone responds as, "Taiji has strikes, kicks, qinna and even shuaijiao, it has also been referred to as stand up wrestling....and if you look at Southern Wu style training in Toronto (Wu family)...they train break falls.... because of the shuaijiao......".

    So some people may feel strongly that Taiji and wrestling share the same goal. Since I feel the same way as he does, that mean I'm not the only person who feels that "Taiji and wrestling share the same goal."

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