Discussion in 'Karate' started by Tom bayley, Jun 24, 2019.
First colobnm shows direction of movement . second collom shows compass facing. third colom shows movement . principle hand movement first, type of movement, which hand is used. then the stance and which leg is in front.
Dwout block is short for downward and outward block. Bk is back stance F is front stance.
How do you write your notes ?
Happy to hear any suggestions for improvement - the aim was to fit the first 6 kata onto 2 sides of A4. its a crib sheet not an authoritative record. this is why I have not usually specified what the off hand is doing. you might notice the odd kung fu term in their two. - I am a glass half full kind of person.
Mnemonic for remembering names in order plus first few moves
Kick Some Nads : Kihon Dwout Punch Showdan w - dwout breakoff Nidan Fist, upcut, hammer. Fist,..
Shake Your Goods : Sandan clear, scissor Yodan snake. snake. Godan clear, punch, wait
Thanks for the like Mitch - very kind. Having posted the notes I noticed it needed some corrections. The idea is not that people should take these notes and and use them ( although they are entirely welcome to) but rather to share an approach which some people may find helpful. These notes certainly make it easier to review my kata in the bath without getting them mixed up.
I write out new patterns or kata on my phone as a list with desciptions and pounters. I then visualise the moves as I read through and find odd times through the day to practice.
Currently doing that to learn the 31 count jo kata from aikido.
Do you have an example that you can post ?
When you write your notes - what do you have in mind ? The notes above are in essence simple coriography they are snapshots from a-z that I can use as landmarks. They miss out much of the key stuff wich I am not shure how to write up.
For me all forms/kata are dynamic records of momentum and kinetic energy. this momentum and energy can be harnessed to drive any number of applications that use that particular set of vectors and dynamics of enegy storage or power generation. I was going to say that i dont have a system of notation for this. but in fact I do. this is at heart what the animals and the elements in kung fu are - indications of vector, momentum, energy storage and power generation.
Up until now I have used the animal/elements to anylise and understand specific applications and groups of applications , but not to anylise the transitional dynamics of the movements between applications. I think it would be tricky to come up with a coherent system for anyliseing forms/kata looking at the transitions between animal and/or elemental movements.
I would be fascinating to see how you do aikido notation. - is it a simple set of snapshot poses from A-Z or do your record more?
So the first few moves of the jo kata I wrote down as this...
1. Slide Left foot forward, mirror grip, forward middle thrust
2. Slide back rising block
3. Slide forward middle thrust
4. Slide back rising block hands together
5. Right foot forward, swap hands, downward strike
6. Step left foot forward, downward strike
7. Pivot 180, right foot forward downward strike
So just basic pointers on what foot is moving, direction, angle, what foot is in front, what the technique is and important details (like grip). That's enough for me to visualise what I'm meant to be doing and then approximate it. I'm not aiming to get it perfect first time but just get the general shape and refine later. Also note I'm not naming techniques accurately but merely in a way that makes visual sense to me and as an aid memoir. I've no idea if what I'm doing is a rising block in aikido but it reminds me of a rising block.motion and that's good enough. My kata descriptions are for me only so that's all I need.
Thanks for putting this together. I'm having flashbacks to my first Shotokan forms reading all this. I could not even tell you the names of the forms I learned, just that I remember testing through green belt and having to learn at least 2 or 3 of these kata. I definitely remember parts of Shodan, Kihon, and Nidan. I also ended up using a lot of these techniques during shadowboxing and bag work, because let's face it doing the kata without resistance is cool but hitting things with them is infinitely cooler.
Ok...I might have stepped through Kihon in the last couple minutes and said hello to my much younger Karate Kid self. It was a very pleasant moment. Then I went over to the bag and practiced some Shotokan style downward blocks and straight punches combined with a couple of 1-1-2-1-2-3 combinations before laughing, and then 10 minutes of jumping rope, my favorite exercise.
Thank you again. It's nice to see this material kept alive for the ages, it deserves to be.
That is pretty much how I do my notes. In kung fu I always begin with stance, and what foot is in front followed by the most active hand. When stepping i say what foot moves, the stance steps into and what foot ends up in front (because sometimes we step backwards).
The karate notes above I have the hand motions before the stance. In practice I found it easier for navigation as karate kata are shorter than my kung fu forms . so in karate i use hand position as reference points but in kung fu I use stance.
In my kung fu notes i do not use the word block instead I refer to the dynamic of the movement - eg what might be called a downward palm block in karate I call a suppressing hand in kung fu.
I use the word block in karate because it is used in he class club where I am learning.
I have been using the notes for a couple of weeks. I have a slightly revised them (mainly to correct inaccuracy's). I find them most helpful for reassurance that I have not got parts of the kata mixed. The beginning of the endings of some of the kata are similar enough for me to do the wrong one.
Indeed. I have learnt something like 14-15 TKD patterns (saju jirugi's to the 3 1st dan patterns) and 8-9 Karate kata at this point (inc. the Pinan/Heian, Sanchin, Tensho, Naihanchi).
The technique/sequence cross over between them all is massive!
Many times I do a low block (for example) and then proceed to complete a different pattern to the one I started.
Saju Jirugi is not a pattern. Hand back your TKD card at the door.
I feel your pain! I'm now teaching 18 patterns and learning 3 more myself. Plus my brain is old and feeble, so I do find myself setting off in one pattern but chucking a bit of another in there sometimes
It's a set sequence of TKD movements one after the other. Making out it's not a "pattern" is just silly word games and semantics. If you want my TKD card you, and the ghost of General Choi, will have to fight me (gently) for it!
Many , many moons ago , I entered my first (and only) kata comp deciding to do heian shodan , halfway through I segued into nidan , then back to shodan.
When I finished I knew something wasn’t right. , but couldn’t put my finger on it , I looked to the judges who looked equally confused , after a couple of chats between themselves and many points being deducted I ended up placing 3rd , out of 3.
10/10 for creativity though.
Meh, depends on whether you accept the definition of what a pattern is, I suppose.
Do tell...what's the definition of a pattern then?
If it's this...
"A pattern is a set of fundamental movements, mainly defence and attack, set in a logical sequence to deal with one or more imaginary opponents."
..then the only thing stopping Saju Jirugi being a pattern is someone's imagination on how to use it to deal with an attacker.
The movements are fundamental, can be used for defence and attack and are in a logical sequence. Starting with an attacking punch as the first move is one of the most logical part of the TKD patterns IMHO...more logical than a lot of what follows in other patterns.
Quite honestly using that criteria I'm not sure some patterns actually qualify (looking at you 6 w-shaped blocks in Toi Gye..."logical sequence"...hah...yeah right).
Strictly speaking, a pattern only counts as such if it has a meaning, that's one of the things that separates it from other combinations, three step etc, and in this case from Saju. Hence Chon Ji is a pattern, Saju is an exercise.
I hereby give Saju jirugi the following meaning...
Saju jirugi takes its name from the punches in four directions. Those four directions represent the 4 directions of the compass, north, east, south and west, and show that the beginning Taekwondo student starts from a neutral point and is in control of the direction and progress of their own training. It is up to them to choose the right path, seek guidance from their instructor and senior students, change course or direction when needed but ultimately they are responsible for their own development. This pattern starts with an attacking move to show that if you are in danger you can strike pre-emptively in order to defend yourself.
Boom!...instant pattern status for Saju Jirugi AND it has a meaning that is actually useful.
I'm like a genius or something.
But now there are 25 TKD patterns...
27 if you include Saju jirugi 2 AND Juche/Ko-dang!
Separate names with a comma.