creationist creeping on kids' video games

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Giovanni, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    The Dover trial over a decade ago conclusively proved that the ID movement hadn't bothered to look into possible developmental pathways of the bacterial flagellum before putting information about it being irreducibly complex into textbooks. They were proved to be deliberately concealing this information back then, and their argument apparently hasn't changed at all in the interim.
     
  2. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    It's interesting that this is what gets you so upset. The "other side" feels the same outrage when messages contrary to their beliefs are targeted at school children, too. Same same same same same. But, when "your side" does it, it's okay. :dunno:

    I rather think my point was that if -- underline that word "if" -- their church body made a high quality advertisement, blah blah blah.

    Oh, come on, now who is muddying the waters and repeating disproven claims, all in an effort to discredit a group of people you don't like! You get a :mad: and a :woo: for that one.

    Picking up on "misrepresenting the facts" -- there's a difference in my mind between (1) something definitively proven true, and (2) something likely true but we have three different ideas for how it might work out, and tomorrow we might find a 4th idea.

    In my limited experience with AiG, they focus on that 2nd branch and try to cast doubt upon the leading theories. To the extent they don't do that, but instead deny something definitively proven true, then ... well, it's not "puffery" anymore, is it? It's a flat-out false advertisement. That would be very bad. :mad:
     
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    No, not same same at all. I have no side, only honesty. Science does not invent things to suit it (if fudges are needed for hypotheses, they are openly called as such), nor does it ever claim to be infallible. Science has no side other than the results of observation. Science is not trying to win the souls of children, even if some scientists are trying to publicly correct the misrepresentation of science by religious groups in their propaganda.

    I don't dislike Catholics, I just find it funny how they justify believing in whatever they want while pretending they are living to some sort of eternal law.

    Case in point: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5406552.stm

    At least with the neo-pagans, that you find so ridiculous, you have a large contingent who are open and honest about believing in what appeals to them, without having to be so insecure as to declare their beliefs the real thing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  4. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    The bacterial flagellum being irreducibly complex has been found within both the scientific community and by the US legal system to be the first. We know that different components of the bacterial flagella are modified components of other molecular machinery glued together with spit and duct tape. I disagree with your summary of AiG; they're happy to repeat lies even after they've been debunked.

    Heck, just take a look at the creation museum, where Answers in Genesis has spent millions of dollars perpetuating the myths that humans and dinosaurs lived side by side, Earth was created 10,000 years ago, women are subordinate to men, all life was saved from a giant ark by Noah and his family. In fact, here's a picture of a reconstruction of that ark complete with two dinosaurs!

    [​IMG]

    These are not people who are interested in good faith inquiry.
     
  5. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I know that's pretty much beside the point of this topic, but some of you guys seem to generalize the groups a bit here (funny enough to make it sound a bit later, that this actually isn't the case).
    It reads a lot like Christians, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims... are all the same; like all Catholics believe in the world was created by God and such.

    Just seems a bit... weird at times.


    More on topic: Was it really a game that is mainly aimed at children or one of the games that goes for all age-groups?
     
  6. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    That museum is ridiculous! Why isn't there people (preferably Raquel Welsh in furs) fighting the dinosaurs? Hardly a realistic portrayal of life in them times is it?
     
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I guess there is an argument for being culturally Catholic, without believing in Catholic dogma, much as you have people who are culturally Jewish but do not believe in the supernatural side of Judaism.

    But how Catholic are you if you don't believe God created the universe?
     
  8. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Bozza...

    Dinosaurs and humans got along. Like P.Z. Myers and this triceratops.

    [​IMG]

    The creation museum is terrible. >:[
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  9. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Aaaaah....Right you are. Photographic evidence is my favourite type of evidence! But where the hell did he find that dinosaur?

    I've decided that tonight I'll learn a little more about dinosaurs, so I am reading a site called Answers in Genesis! Fascinating site with some great theories and information.
     
  10. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    you lost me at beer dude. i'm trying to have a legit conversation about what my children specifically and all children are being exposed to and you've reduced it to beer.

    i know you're sincere, and you're just trying to engage.
     
  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    [​IMG]

    Seriously though there were some pretty cool dinosaur finds this year. A preserved feather and a dinosaur that lost all its teeth at maturity come to mind. Oh, and a cool paper that showed that dinosaur eggs acted more like reptile eggs and may have taken as long as 6 months to hatch.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  12. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    And that's where it pretty much "goes wrong", at least here.

    For example: I am Catholic.
    I'm even still an altar server (not often anymore admittedly); so I know lots of Catholics that actually go to church and the such.

    And aas far as I know, *none* of these believes that God created Earth.

    In the contrary: When I spent more time with religions and such it was a very(!) common view from lots of smart people, who work in the field, that the Bible is to be seen as a book with stories that are to be taken as that: Stories, that use metaphors all the time (God created Earth, poeple getting hundreds of years old)...
    And other that other things are just how the times back then were (beating your kids, when deceased the wife will be married to a brother, ...)
    But that it's not to be taken literally.


    I'd still like to know what sort of game it was the kid was playing.
    It doesn't necessarily make it better (I actually think, if you have to put up adds as a religion, that's kind of weird), but it might make a difference, if they really aim right at kids or just aim at whatever age plays this game.


    On a sidenote: As I understand it this "Genesis" is a group or something and not only the first book of Moses, right?
    Never heard of them, to be honest, so in case that's important I thought I mention it.
     
  13. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Off topic but...

    Links? I'd like to read about that, if you could share it or PM 'em over to me, that would be great.

    What was the theory about dinosaur eggs before this paper?
     
  14. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/12/dinosaur-tail-trapped-amber-sheds-light-evolution-feathers

    Dinosaur tail trapped in amber with feathers.

    http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/25/14073522/dinosaurs-teeth-tooth-toothless-age-limusaurus-beak

    Toothless dinosaur.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/science/dinosaur-eggs.html?_r=0

    Dinosaur eggs.

    Dinosaurs are the bestest.
     
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Maybe we're getting our terminology mixed up.

    Just because a Christian does not believe in intelligent design (which is most of them), that does not mean that they do not believe that God created the universe, put in place the initial conditions and set his pre-ordained plan in motion (with a little wiggle room for free will, even though he knows the results of that free will in advance).
     
  16. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Maybe, we do.
    I never have met a person so far personally (I do know they exist) that didn't "believe" in the... uhm... help me out here, is "Big Bang" really the word?... and therefore creation of life.
    I imagine, there are some people at church that would say "God, sort of created the "Big Bang"(?) but sort of without denying the science behind it.

    I think that's the way it nearly has to work in a world, where you want to keep your religion in some way (*if* you want that) but also are realistic enough to see the truth in Science, so to speak.


    I'm really sorry, because I know this must sound really bumpy, but that subject is surprisingly difficult to explain in another language :eek:
    We should talk about Star Wars or something, that's easier ;)


    PS.: I can't take myself as a good example here.
    I believe in the science-side and I still think, there is some sort of God, but as soon as I would have to explain further, I couldn't, because I myself am not sure about the details.
     
  17. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Thanks. Fascinating stuff.

    I came across this article and found it interesting:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/28/science/brown-rat-new-york-city.html

    "After spreading slowly for thousands of years, the scientists found, brown rats scampered over much of the planet in just the past three centuries. And once brown rats settle into a new city, the new study suggests, they repel all newcomers — a finding that could have big implications for our health."
     
  18. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    There's some really interesting studies in urban ecology right now, basically talking about how cities have their own biota that resembles other cities more than the surrounding environment. Doesn't matter if you're talking about New York and Moscow, you'll find pigeons, brown rats, and cats. Actually, there was an interesting paper released about ten or twenty years back that said the formation of the London subways led to the speciation of a new, bloodsucking mosquito that spread across the undergrounds of Europe.

    One of the funniest papers I read in PNAS was about tracking a rat on an island that slipped its radio collar, avoided the scientists' dogs and traps, then wound up dead on an island some 50km away. The persistence of those little guys is nuts.
     
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Nah, you're explaining yourself fine :)

    In Europe I think the majority of Christians accept science and think of the Bible as morality tales and allegory rather than literal fact.

    Unfortunately the popularity of fundamentalist Christianity is growing among the poorly educated and vulnerable. I had such a church behind a house I used to live in. All prison tattoos and kids speaking in tongues in the creche.
     
  20. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I think that's true.
    FUndemantal Christians are not very common here, and I'm glad for that, to be honest.

    When I saw a documentation about a fundamental group in the US (I don't remember much of the details, sorry), I was rather shocked as to what to seemed to be normal there and what they explained to the kids or people who seem to be receptive.
    Lots of how they handled "problems" (you know, like homosexuality) seemed borderlining criminal to me as well.
     

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