If your dojo uses a defined syllabus, maybe the Ten Chi Jin ryaku no maki, how is it ensured that beginners cover the beginning and the higher grades get to cover the rest? Are separate classes run? Does the class split up under different instructors, to cover different levels/parts? Is there even more than one instructor? I have posted this in the ninjutsu section as I am thinking specifically of the wide variety (in the Bujinkan at least) of approaches to teaching. But for that matter I am interested in how the Genbukan and Jinenkan cover this too. In larger groups with multiple instructors I can see this becoming less of an issue. But many groups are very small. Also if the dojo tend to cover a selection of basics every class and then move onto a couple of kata from x-ryu as opposed to teaching from the TCJRNM say, then this may not be an issue either... I am not talking about teaching "feeling" etc. And obviously it is good for the higher grades to keep returning to the start often...just curious about class structure Just a Sunday morning, pre-2nd coffee ponder....
Typically, the class will start with basic training. Everyone will practice kihon, kaiten, etc with a random partner. Partners will rotate with every new exercise so everyone ends up practicing for everyone. After the basic training, there might be specific drills for self defense or weapons work. That will also be a matter of everyone training with everyone, though complete beginners are always paired with a more experienced studnt who can help break down a technique into smaller portions. And the final part of the training, people break out their notes and start their curriculum specific training. People are paired with people of the same grade (or near as possible) in order to work on their specific curriculum. What you'll typically see is that 2 or 3 beginners work on their white belt curriculum together, and then progress through the grades simultaneously. Unless the difference is truly big, they are kept together with their exams, because having a training partner who is working on the same curriculum is a huge advantage and spending a little more time on a kyu level while your partner is catching up doesn't hurt anyone. Not all class have the same amount of the above. If the sensei is absent and I teach class, we sometimes spend the entire class just doing basic kihon or throws. Or if there is an exam coming up, the entire training might be curiculum specific. You get the idea. But generally speaking, there are 3 identifiable modes of training: basic kihon, topical training for all grades the same, and curriculum specific trainig which is usually with someone of the same grade. This is our Genbukan dojo way of training.
Sounds very much like most Bujinkan classes. We tend to cover ukemi, some kiso, either some, or a selection from the kihon happo or sanshin. Then some techniques against some attack or other. Towards the end maybe some unarmed or weapon kata from whichever school we may be working on... With such a range of grades present I do wonder if it may just go way over their heads. ie you teach to say shodan level or more without realising. Maybe teach basic basic and then go to higher graded pairs and show more in-depth.
Do you mean Bujinkan shodan or Genbukan shodan? There is quite a difference between the 2, since Genbukan shodan is on average 10 years into the art, practicing at least 2 times per week.
LOL. I knew it wouldn't take you long... I had not heard that. Is that always the case? I actually meant shodan as a concept, ie. a good grasp of the basics, ready to become a "beginner", NOT as a set grade within an org. How long do you think it takes in the Bujinkan I know some who took longer than 10 years. Some less.
As a Genbukan practitioner, I'd say the time it takes to reach shodan is dependent on various factors (e.g. classes trained, physical & mental aptitude, teaching/training methodology, instructor's discretion for promotions, etc.) Some folks will make it to shodan within 3-5 years, which is not all that unusual. At the dojo I train at, for instance, our core gradings are in Genbukan Ninpo Taijutsu. Once somebody attains shodan in that, they may then proceed to grade up in the Kokusai Jujutsu Renmei system. Some dojo will focus on one system or the other to start, and others will grade in both systems together; this can certainly affect the progression time.
We alternate grades, so getting your shodan in JJ usually follows within a year of getting the shodan in ninpo. But the first one then takes 10 years to get. Anyway I didn't mean to turn this into another 'Buj dans are easy' discussion, but since you mention shodan level, I thought I'd ask what you meant. What you describe in terms of a good understanding of the basics etc, I'd say that is 6th or 5th kyuu in Genbukan (which is roughly 5 years in in dojo that alternat ninpo and jujutsu grades)
Interesting... Also, would you say most Genbukan students at your dojo train twice or more times a week?
IMO if you want to get good at an art its at least 2 times a day not 2 times a week. Plus additional training (conditioning and whatnot). As for the OP - its a tough thing to do based on the class size and mix, needs a mix of focusing on the basics and some varied waza and training in order to keep things motivating. After 2 years of training you should be able to put anything in front of the student and they should be able to learn from it - sometimes high ranks with high ranks to play with concepts - I personally enjoy working with low ranks since you know when you move them it is because it hurts - too much flop over conditioning can occur with more experienced people. First 2 years is more about getting the foundation to learn - for clarity lets call that Judan in the booj and 8th Kyu in the Genbukan.
That would count out anyone with a job. So no-one outside of a person with the ability to train either professionally, or who has the finances to train full time can be any good. That's quite plainly not correct.
OK can you point me in the direction of someone whom you consider any good and let me know how frequently they train? I personally have a job and get in 8 classes a week, and there are a lot of people that I train with daily that put in a lot more hours than I do and have jobs, some of whom are also in college.
Do you have a family, wife and kids? Anyone can combine a rigorous training schedule with a job. That's just a matter of prioritizing. However, having a full time job, and training every day of the week, and having a family... that would be a different kettle of fish, and likely means that your family wouldn't be seeing much of you.
Yes, I have all those. I just balance my day. But that is an aside. More importantly, I don't think it is that much of a stretch to say that you aren't going to get very good at something that you spend 3-4hrs a week on, especially if (as often is the case) your other time is spent in a completely unrelated manner. I know it can sounds like I am challenging here, but I think its just a fact. You can enjoy what you do, certainly, but you cannot become exceptional at something that you commit so little time to.
It's not an aside, it's just your personal circumstance. How can you balance a full time job (not flexi hours), commuting, family etc and train twice a day? How many martial artists can train twice a day? 1 in 5000 maybe. Is only 1 in 5000 martial artists any good? Also remember that lots of training doesn't mean good training and hours spent isn't a guarantee of quality.
As with everything , I think this needs context , if you just go to class 2-4 hours a week and nothing else , then sure , you're improvement will be slow at best. I don't think it unreasonable however to fit in some "personal" training every day , if you have families and jobs this could just be running through form/technique slowly by yourself , if you have a bit more freedom then you can go further.
Lets get two things clear: 1. I don't consider myself in the excellent level I am talking about - I put the people that are training 2-3x more than me and have a lot more talent than I do in this level. I am as bad as the next man. 2. You cannot excel at anything if you dedicate such a small percentage of your time towards it. If you could, you would just shuffle around a few things, increase it by 50% to 3 days a week and monetize it massively. I don't know why this is getting you guys hot under the collar - surely if you could train twice a day you would be that much better?
There is no syllabus. You go to Japan, watch Soke, train with ****enno, and continue exploring kata and henka when you get back home. For minimum headaches don't accept any students with less then a decade of martial arts training in other arts, preferably either in Judo, Boxing, or Kickboxing. Cater to yourself and always train at the highest level, anyone who can't keep up can leave. Bujinkan grade is not a badge of competency or proficiency, it's a measure of how much the person brings to the organisation, in other words the person's standing within the organisation. There is no 'grade', certificate, or representation for competency in the Bujinkan.
Absolutely. However, whilst a small minority of people will be training as frequently as I mention, an even smaller one trains 1-2 times per week AND actually supplements it with their own training. There is a huge risk in just training excessively that you are simply turning up for the sake of it and not actually gaining from the experience, a bit like a rabbit that needs to eat its own poop several times before it is digested. However...I believe there is a big difference in sensitivity and ability to discern movement when you are training daily vs every couple of days.
Who's hot under the collar? We are a discussion forum and we are involved in a discussion. You did say though that to get good at an art you need to train at least twice a day. I disagree, that's all. Twice a day of hard and correct training, a full time job and a family is, or at least often would be, overtraining for many.
Hmmm. Once again, some odd/interesting views. The TCJRNM may not be a defined official syllabus...nobody is obligated to use it (afaik), but I assume you know of it? Are you in Japan currently?
