There's no confusion - it's definitely not Dave Hazard. The people who taught him are easily traceable for a start.......also there is nothing dodgy about Dave Hazard whatsoever. He is highly respected in every way.
has Graystone said its not Dave Hazard? For all we know Dave Hazard changed his name from Hasard because Hazard sounds harder.
Nothing about Dave Hazard fits in the description of the bloke under discussion. Info is freely available about him on the net.
As being a practitioner of Wado Ryu. As having an original teacher who is "untraceable". Dave Hazard is a well respected Shotokan instructor, and has a very traceable background. He still is an instructor.
I know it might be a little difficult Steve,but can you expand on your statement a little. I'm aware from E - Budo that people allege discrepancies in the linages of the individuals and the training itself that the gentleman mentioned has aparently received along with the grades. I also have to add that this gentleman is not the only Judan self promoting himself. I think we have to be ready to be counted here.... Either we accept universally, that the golden age of Karate, ( Late 60's, 70's,80's and early 90's )have gone forever and blackbelt of any Dan grade means absolutely nothing and accept the inexorable slide into McKarate commercialism and ' fast food ' standards, i.e. the results are quick, no enduring endeavour, ( Shugyo ), is required and we get exactly what we pay for, or some of us can choose to maintain some of the standards passed on down by the pioneers. I wear my blackbelt sometimes, depending which art I'm training in, because it's a link to my roots and my past. It reminds me of the thousands upon thousands of man hours spent training and breaking my balls. The fights I have won, the fights I have lost, the gradings where I've succeeded and others where I have not and the times I have been knocked down and the times I have gotten back up off my ****. Wearing it also helps keeps my pants up. So, to me, yes it means something. It didn't come easy but I wouldn't have had it any other way, but those were different times. I speak for no one but myself, but I have an inkling there are others, perhaps many, who share a similar view. And if you have a similar view, then occasionally we must speak out before this green and pleasant land is overrun with Tenth Dans and dan grades are given out in the same time frame as kyu grades are now, ( Don't laugh, within five years it will happen as the old guard are put out to grass and the usurpers become the establishment ). Moosey, If you don't regularly train with your seniors, or people who are acknowledged leaders in their field of endeavour then how can you grow ? I'm not just pigeon holing Mr Grayston but several others as well. I don't dispute He might be a skilled martial artist, but if you put him in a room with Sensei Morio Higoanna, would his skill REALLY supercede that of sensei Higoanna's ? Sensei Terry O'Neil's name is regularly brought to bear in the martial arts press and forums as a benchmark for Karate excellence, both in the dojo and in the street arena, ( and rightly so......... in a recent edition of the american magazine Blackbelt, he was named as the World's Toughest Karate streetfighter.......... and I wouldn't argue with it ), but given the opportunity, even he would travel the four corners to train with Higaonna. Sensei O'Neil acknowledges Sensei Higoanna as a true Karate master. Sensei Higaonna is Ninth Dan. I suspect this man would refuse the offer of Tenth Dan because of the fantastic humility of the man and his deference to his teacher, Aniichi Miyagi, although there are few people more worthy. So there we are then, Hanchi or some other UK Judan and Higaonna in the same room, perhaps giving a joint seminar..... who would you gravitate towards ? the living legend or the gentleman with the checkered history and unsubstantiated linage, bearing in mind you may have paid a lot of money and you perhaps want McDojo results. I'm pretty sure if you aligned yourself with Hanchi the quality would not be as great as if you trained under Higoanna. I'll attempt to put it more succinctly and it should enscapulate my point, perhaps a bit more clearly. Moosey, you have been training in Karate for two weeks and had two lessons, but you really enjoy it. In your local paper is an advertisement stating that in your village, town, city, two Karate seminars, ( focussing on non style practicable application ), are being held the following week. One seminar is being held By Hanshi Tenth dan or perhaps Soke Tenth Dan, ' The World's Greatest Kicker ' The other seminar is being held by a squat, thick set 60 year old Nineth dan Okinawan. You are a beginner, have no access to the internet and your knowledge of Karate is very limited. You have been told the Judans can do multiple kicks at head height, while the Okinawan cannot even kick above his waist !? The seminars are being held at the same time but on the other side of town to each other. The price is the same. Under the circumstances, which would you plump for ? the dynamic Judans or the little Okinawan Nineth Dan. Obviously, you'd go for the Tenth Dans, because any fool knows the Tenth Dans would and should know more than the Nineth Dan. You may well have a very good course, however....... you really fall in love with the art of traditional karate and continue studying for several years. One day someone asks you if you had the choice again, which seminar would you choose, I suspect your answer might be - ' Although, I enjoyed the course with the Tenth Dans, I bloody wish I knew then what I knew now, because Higaonna is the real deal and I would have learnt so much more. The issue, as Steve Rowe has mentioned previously, is education. If you had had the benefit of hindsight or you had been more educated at the time in the ' Karate Histroy ', it would be Higaonna every time. As a beginner, with little knowledge you were seduced by the thought that the Tenth Dans were obviously better, because they had a higher grade. This is the crux of my viewpoint. Proclaim to the world if you wish, that you are a Tenth Dan Grandmaster, but then add a disclaimer that outside of your association or group your Judan grade is worthless and meaningless and is only a promotional mechanism and in fact you are not in any way senior to people like Higaonna or Suzuki. The problem for me, is such people attempt to subtley legitimise their Tenth Dan Grades and promogulate it into the mainstream martial arts community. To reiterate what I've said on this thread umpteen times now, no, I don't have a problem with UK Judans as long as they don't seek to convince an unedcuated public, ( both martial and general ), that they are anything other than effectively association Tenth Dans and they make this fact abundantly clear. Also when I have ' shelled out my hard earned ' on MAI, Combat, Fighters, Blackbelt and Inside Kung Fu, to find these Tenth Dans ponitificating when I could better read more genuine articles by genuine masters like Sensei Higaonna and the like. Jaae Judans on chocolate pedastals should stay clear of blow torches.
but its chalk and cheese, comparing a Dan system in Shotokan with a Dan system in any other karate system doesn't work. I've met 7th Dans in styles that would get their arses handed to them on a plate by a 2nd Dan in another, we are always hearing about how training for a black belt in BJJ is so much harder than training for one in karate. Why? because the syllabuses are different.
Highest Dan grade I have met was Mike Lambert who at the time I believe was an 8th Dan in Go Ju Ryu I took one of my Dan grades with him. There was only 3 of us and it was done as a lesson with plenty of talk and some examples by him. When you meet or train with some one that good you can understand why some people get upset about Dan grades been given away. The man was awesome and have yet to see another karate man of any country move that fast and that good. If some of these so called 10th dans could move like Mike Lambert they would not need to prove anything. A man with that higher grade could demonstrate by his actions what he is worth.
but they are not comparable. Ok, I would bet that Graystone is the best practitioner of Shindo Ryu Karate in the world. So what is wrong with him holding the highest rank?
I agree with you, Jaae. Often these dan grades are just deceptive marketing and are pointless and indeed damaging to the value and trustworthiness of the dan grade.
I think these things are comparable. A teacher called Rick Clark likes the phrase Universal principles. If you put to 7th dans in a room and one of them was not a good or worthy 7th dan I think you could tell quite quickly who was the better karate man even if they were different styles of karate. The principles and class would shine through.
Go and train with a few various 7th dans from various styles you will find some of them are far superior because they can demonstrate martial art principles in away that will leave you in no doubt as to what they are worth.
Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to silly off topic question corner. Jaae, this Sensei Higaonna you mentioned, would he be the head of the IOGKF? And if so, does anyone know if those schools are any good? Anyway, carry on, I wont interupt anymore.
Senior dan grades are awarded for all manner of reasons and not just because someone can 'do' the business, the governing body merely stipulates time served and age as a requirement. After 3rd dan, many grades are awarded for 'services rendered to karate' and not ability. The physical decline of many masters in old age would mean that they would have to give their grades back and not accept any more. Judging ability also depends an the eye of the beholder and is entirely subjective. A grading simply defines the relationship between instructor and student and at the top end can be awards for services rendered - nothing more, pieces of cloth and paper to outsiders. Anyone who judges ability by grade is a fool. Finding the right instructor is a 'quest' for any serious student and should constitute the first serious part of their study. Those who engage in karate as a leisure activity can go anywhere, it doesn't make much difference really and they'll probably even come to your door and get you!
HolyHead, I completely agree, however, we are talking about distinctly comparable systems, i.e. Japanese / Okinawan type Karate systems. I have absolutley no idea of the time frame between grades, for systems such as, Modern Karate, Free Style Karate, All style Karate, Sport Kick Boxing Karate, Full Contact Karate, however, talking to various friends and associates, generally they are not dissimilar. Some Taekwondo systems seem to garde much quicker, re - read my posts at no time were any of the above mentioned. The UK Karate Judans mentioned in this thread either directly or by inference base their systems on the Japanese model and publicize their systems as new styles underpinned by authentic roots. They seek to legitimise their rank and style into the mainstream of TRADITIONAL Karate. However, I will agree with you on one point, many hardcore traditional Nidans, could indeed whoop their collective asses !!! Jaae
Holy, So, what is Shindo Ryu ? by his own admission it's a personal jigsaw of, ( supposedly ), Kobayashi Shorin Ryu, Wado Ryu and Shotokan and perhaps some other influences. Hmmmmm, correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't it just pix 'n' mix Japanese Karate. it he had termed it Modern Karate and propogated it as such I don't really think there would be so much of an issue. But trying to dress it up in Japanese culturistic symbolism and present it as a 'new' Japanese ryuha is a bitter pill to swallow for some............ plus is it all explained to new students and beginners ? Jaae
Hi Bob, He is indeed Head of the Internationl Okinawan Goju Ryu Federation. His representative in the UK is Sensei George Andrews who is another awesome martial artist. ( I hope to drag Sensei George up to the Midlands at some point to present a seminar on self defence, I have seen his work, awesome ). Also Sensei Barker from sheffield comes highly recommended and is a gentleman. Other noted instructors are Sensei Gavin Mulholland and Sensei Lipinski although they are not aligned with Sensei Higoanna, although you will find they have the deepest respect for him. Goju is particularly strong in the London area, South Yorkshire and the South coast. The quality of teaching in most of these groups is excellent. As far as I can tell none of the Goju guys have ever promoted themselves to Tenth Dan ( sic ). Jaae
Thanks Jaae, you rock! You seem to really know the people involved, although I should have mentioned, I'm Australian. Still, it's good to know all that, I'm pretty sure I'll have to do my National Service in a London bar soon.
