Congratulations America

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Dead_pool, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    From my experience with people overseas there wasn't a single dang person from the UK that didn't know all kinds of nationalized theme songs or didn't have significant pride in their national identity. Every country I went there were a significant enough amount of the population wearing what you're talking about, that you can't call them "fringe extremists." That includes both military and non military. I read a comment like this, along with all the "tacticool people are the kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk devils th3 naz1s" and it's clear there's no real discussion going on here.

    If I were to try and explain narcissistic tactics in arguments that prevent actual communication going on, this conversation would be a great one. "Guy who will argue about how we shouldn't use stereotypes, argues basically that people like him should be able to use stereotypes. People call him out. Guy defends position, deflects, shifts goal posts, and does everything possible to avoid admitting he might just be wrong while providing every explanation for why he should be regarded as right."

    Well, time to put on my EVIL TAKKKTIKKKOOL boots and long johns and get to work. Nice to start the morning off with a laugh.
     
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  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Yep. If a building has the cross of St. George (more so than the Uni0n Flag tbh) hanging off it you can pretty much guarantee the person inside is a *redacted word*. Unless that building is a pub, and even then it's more than likely going to be a pub frequented by the sort of *redacted word* that hangs a flag off his house and so won't be a pub I'll go into.
    Here's a Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (Tommy Robinson) protest that says it all really.

    [​IMG]

    On the other side of the flag coin you have the Last night of the proms flag wavers...they ain't my kind of people either. But then I'm not big on nationalism of any kind really. Statistically some places are much worse than others and yet you won't find an absolute dump of a place that people won't claim to be proud to be from. In fact in some ways the worse a place is the more strident people seem to proclaim their pride.
    Many people are extremely proud of coming from horrible northern industrial towns in the UK but no one is proclaiming their pride in being born in Surrey, Windsor or the Cotswolds. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
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  3. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I think when Brits go abroad (especially 16-30 white men of a certain....leaning) they ramp up their nationalism more. Or they just become concentrated in a smaller area, get drunk and start singing Land of hope and Glory so they seem very prominent.
    But in the UK itself there're not many displays of Nationalism. I couldn't tell you where the nearest Uni0n Flag is hanging for example. Local pub maybe? There's probably a local council building or court house with one perhaps? Virtually no one has one hanging from their house like they do with the stars and stripes in the US (apart from the people mentioned above). In many ways I think that's a function of having a long history and deep rooted identity. When a country is young (like America) I think national symbols become more prominent and powerful in forming cohesion and identity.
     
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  4. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    I remember being in Magaluf, and a bunch of us went to the strip where all the English people went. There was a lot of back and forth with national anthems and other nationalist songs being sung and the funniest part was all the Americans had points of "mumble" singing because they didn't know their song. Glad it didn't turn into a Revolutionary War re-enactment because we would have gotten slaughtered! This was back in 2010 prior to all the immigration. I wonder if your military is more diverse now with all the refugees being taken in over the years. One of the things that always blew my mind when I saw either the UK military, or another country's military was the homogeneous ethnic nature of them. Where I'm from I've always been around a diverse group of ethnic and cultural backrounds. That said, there are places like Blue Ridge, Georgia in the United States that I've visited that were also like visiting another country because it was nothing but white people.

    It sounds like the Union Jack people are a large portion of the population from everyone's description, to which I go back to the point of them not really being a fringe group as they were described. It's kind of like how the dang numpty trumpists aren't just a fringe element in the United States. There are things to shame them about for sure, but in the context of this thread it's not the takkktikkkal clothing. They aren't all this description they are being made out to be. We are basically developing McCarthyism again but with new words and faces. History doesn't repeat but it rhymes really well. It's not going to work, if people keep pushing agendas by doing some of the exact same things that helped get us here (stupid stereotypes are a major contributor) it's not going to end in anything other than violence.
     
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  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I'll post later when I have time,

    But I just wanted to say.......

    Magaluf attracts a certain type of person, it's a bit like expecting spring break in Florida to be an accurate representation of the state of New York.


    I would love to use it's common nickname but it's definitely against TOS!
     
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    How it started...

    How it's going.....
     
  7. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Well there were your first AND second mistakes. :)
    Magaluf, Ibiza, Ayia Napa, the costa....the Brits that go there are...putting it gently..is not exactly Britain sending out its best and brightest.
     
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  8. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    The night ended with a waiter serving everyone naked (her decision), and doing absinthe shots that involved lighting a shot glass on fire and inhaling fumes so I can imagine a certain class of people go there. I wasn't using the personal anecdote as evidence for my position as not being entrenched in a political ideological position is all anyone needs to realize how ill thought out your argument is. I shared my story because it was funny and ironic due to it being the opposite of what's being claimed. I assume anecdote is automatically not regarded as evidence, hence the detour into the diversity of your military after all these years of refugees compared to when I was around them from 08 - 12, followed by a shift back on topic. If you have a lengthy response based on that, please spend your time better.

    What I REALLY remember is wanting to message @Lily at the time on MAP and hobbled my way to a computer bar (when that was still a thing xD). I sent out an email, and then threw up into a 1 gallon water jug. I am pretty proud of that as I got projectile vomit into a container with a mouth opening about 1 inch in diameter without getting it on anything else. I then passed out sitting upright on a bench right outside the cafe, alone, until a group of Marines found me. I think I fell asleep on the beach after that so that was nice.
     
  9. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    I have been to Turkey, Greece, Ireland, and Turkey, but all of them in either the context of military training or a few night overstay travelling. Those dang Greeks man . . . . . . $170.00 takkktikkkool, hard knuckle gloves for a small pack of rolling tobacco and some gyros >: O. They will take advantage of you let me tell you!

    I can't say I know a ton about the dynamic of your country and who goes where and who does what. I do think I know, like in America, saying things like "fringe group" is not addressing the problem and is exacerbating it. Add in the stereotypes and labels, sprinkle in some political leverage like you have right now in the United States and you have ingredients for some significant freaking problems. Nearly half a country isn't "fringe," or any group that's a large majority/minority. You either have to work with people, or kill them to stop the problems they cause. At this point I'm really tired of the bickering and stereotyping. I'm just done with it. If you're not trying to work with people you're just playing their game, and giving people in power even more power that they aren't going to let go of.
     
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  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    On holiday on Gran Canaria I passed out on a kiddies sit on elephant ride only to be woken up at 4am by someone telling me I should make my way home before someone stole my shoes. Hahaha.
     
  11. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Part of the issue with the UK, is we have four seperate countries, and five flags, noone really likes the union flag (it's not called the union jack apart from in certain special situations) apart from the English, and then the big flag wavers mostly like the English flag more then the British flag, because all English are also British, but not everyone British is also English. The Welsh, Scots and half of the northern Irish dislike England, but it's a mild dislike, for the most part.

    Simple isn't it.

    This may help.


     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I think your right... I'm using this definition, perhaps your definition is different.

    I'd view tactical and paramilitary as being sides to the same coin.


    Definition of TACTICAL
     
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    When a lot of people say "fringe group", I think they often mean "none of my friends, neighbours or columnists I read are like that".

    I think that the left-leaning middle class in both England and the US are suspicious of overt displays of nationalism. Partly because being reserved and modest are desirable in those cultures, as well as a sense of shame about colonialism and military aggression.

    Speaking as a Britishen, I do not think that flag wavers are a fringe group over here, and being a poor Englandite I have lived in, or next to, plenty of areas where the St. George cross is a common sight.
     
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  14. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I'd say that "tactical" has stylistic or functional influences from military gear (fabric choices, webbing, etc), strong or weak, whereas paramilitary gear is actual military gear sold to the general public.

    The idea of civilian clothing being inspired or influenced by military gear, without actually being military surplus equipment, isn't new or controversial. What do you think peacoats and Doc Marten boots are?

    Edit: another example is the MOLLE webbing system in the Ford Bronco Sport. Certainly "tactical," but not a paramilitary vehicle in any way. Do people who drive the Bronco Sport "look like Nazis?"

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Exactly, military inspired, for people cosplaying being in the forces.

    And perhaps ex forces who are used to the style, and perhaps good for hiking too, but not just for insurrectionists, who also dress like very fine people.

    I think we've run this argument in circles now.

    So anyway as I originally was saying it's a shame chinos and red hat's are tarnished, and I wonder how long they will be socially unacceptable for.

    Americans on MAP - 1523499744002.jpg
     
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award


    But when a significant minority in your country arent actually connected to reality, if you work with them, your going to drag your country further down into the quagmire. We've just done that with brexit, and now we're going to have a trade war over vaccines.

    You guys have done that with trump, and now hundreds of thousands are dead from covid.
     
  17. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Do you consider people in peacoats to be "cosplaying" being in the Navy? Do you consider people who wear Doc Martens to be "cosplaying" in the Army?
     
  18. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    True story from a week or so ago. A mate of mine was taking his dog for a walk and noticed some sort of neo-nazi looking flag flying from a flagpole outside a house in his village. He was understandably somewhat concerned that actual nazis were living nearby.

    A few days later he and his son were out walking the dog, and he pointed out the flag to his lad, voicing his concerns.

    His son pointed out, "Dad, that's the Klingon flag." :D
     
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  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Both styles predate the military.

    Peacock coats were originally made for sailers, the navy only took the design afterwards, whereas doc Martin's, were designed as an improvement on normal boots, and were a hit with housewives.

    So no I don't, however if there was a 5.11 tactical edition made of tactical camo material, and advertised by male models pretending to be manly men who are manly, I would find them more hilarious!

    Interesting fact, the CEO of 5.11 is bezzy mates with the trump brothers, one of which gave a speech in person to the insurrectionists!
     
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    What other options are there? Disenfranchise them? Send them to the gulag?

    You're talking about enough people to win a referendum and elect a president. Hoping that these people will go away if we ignore them hasn't worked so far. There is still a lot of support for leaving the EU, and Biden hardly won by a landslide.

    Engagement looks to me like the only option.
     
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