Confusion in terms of different Kali/Arnis styles from around the Philippines

You guys ever wonder why Kali/Arnis styles terms are called differently even though they are talking about the same technique or why in some parts of the country it's called by it's local vernacular but in other parts they're in Spanish, or there are terms that sound the same but they are totally different techniques, etc, etc? Even Kali/Arnis from the same region will call the same techniques by different terms. Interested students can get very confused but even seasoned students like yourselves get mixed up too.

Well, here's why? There are so many languages in the Philippines, and add to that their various dialects then you can have this hodge podge terms and the resulting confusion. From the different arts of the different ethno-linguistic groups in Luzon to the arts of the diminutive Aetas to the Escrimas of Cebu and other Visayan arts and the Pekiti Tersia of the Ilonggos to the purely bladed as well as empty hand arts of Muslim South one can be confused.

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Philippines

What do you guys think about this babel of terms? Should there be a movement to unite all Kali/Arnis styles so similar techniques would be called the same? or not? Why? or why not? What are the pros and cons?

This should make for a lively discussion.

 

I prefer not. It's confusing, but that confusion relays some important points about the Philippines in its own right. The influence of the Spanish in certain terms (e.g., arnis de mano). The influence of the Chinese in others (e.g., kuntao). Different uses by different lineages. I think it's part of what's fascinating about FMA. Even in simply sorting out their use of a term, you learn some in-depth things about the people, circumstances, and concepts behind a style.


Stuart

 

If it aint broke, don't fix it I say,

What makes the FMA so unique is it's diversity both in styles and terminologies (and thats Eskrima with a 'K' by the way ). You may notice that things such as the world wide web are starting to united the art anyway and we all accept out differences, a thing that would have been unmentionable only a couple of years ago.

We could decide to have the same term for the same technique and we could decide to call it just one name, but that brings up the question of 'who decides and why them'.

In a way because we all accept that what ever style we do, we think it is the best for us and we accept that every style may use a different term or interpritaion of term for certain things we all just call it FMA, so you see in a way we do have one name for the art that everyone agrees on, and we all agree to be different, and that my freind is what makes us so effective and unique. Don't you think?

Best regards

Pat

 

The differences are there as that is the way that the arts evolved and developed in a cultural sense. To homogenize them, you dishonor both the founders and the cultures that spawned the arts.

 

i think that this will be close to impossibe. not with the personalities and the politics.

pat knows a story of relatives coming to blows over the spelling of just one word ONE WORD! the dang SPELLING!

i don't think that that story should be re-told but it gives an idea of how close to impossible it is.

 

Yep! I have seen it time and time again over 'ONE WORD' but I honestly feel that the majority of us are now deciding to agree that 'A rose by any other name, is still a rose' And I also feel that the new Generation of Masters that are now comming through the ranks as we now unfortunately loose our older generation are working closer and closer to try to unite the art.

One step at a time I say, let us start working together first before even considering bring up terminologies, and as I have said before, the diversity of the art, terminologies and the styles is what makes FMA the most effective art around I say.

Best regards

Pat

 

In my system of Eskrima we teach several complete styles of Eskrima/Escrima/Arnis/Kali whatever you want to call it and they are all fully synthesized through an understanding of concepts and core principles.

We use several terms for the same move to imply not the move but the mode of operation
eg
Redondo / Flywheel
Same essential move but
Flywheel from Arnis, Kali - Stick, Blade &
Redondo from Eskrima - Whip.

 

As soon as you ask several groups to agree on a term, someone has got to sacrifice what they have always known.....it would not be fair on somebody to give up their identity and it would likely cause angst between fellow FMA groups unnecessarily.

So unless you just like to cause an argument or a fight, I cannot see why anyone would really expect the Eskrima Kali Arnis to become united in one language of terms.

Within Rapid Arnis, we teach and demonstrate other styles from different groups and although they might have different names for moves in the PI, we do not confuse our students with this. We teach in English most of the time and the Filipino words that we do use, we maintain one term/explanation. Most of our students do not have any difficulty training with different styles they are willing to learn the techniques regardless of the drills name.

Some of our drills do have names, but often we just give them a number like 5, 6, or 7 count single stick, double stick, or stick and dagger etc...and explain what style it is influenced by or comes from. This avoids any crossover and confusion.

If someone then wants to learn a specific style in it's entirity, well that is different, we can provide them the specifics for that style and give them everything they need to know, so they can further their development in their chosen style.

I personally learn by watching anyway and from my experience of learning in the PI, it is very difficult to keep up with what they are saying and usually if you are concentrating on what is being said, you end up missing a technique that has been demonstrated to you anyway...so I tend to just watch, attempt what has been taught and ask questions later and listen to the answers. I worry about the name of a technique later.

Love Lucy :love:

 

consistency is terminology is not a big part in fma, i know, coz im still confuse.
big part i think is the dialect.

 

Ah! but which dialect do we pick:bang:

 

Several decades ago more Filipinos know how to speak English than the designated trade language. Now the more dominant dialects are Filipino (the trade lingo although heavily influenced by the tagalog dialect), forms of Ilokano (Ilocos region dialect) and forms of the Visayan dialect.

Take note that I say FORMS. Because these will most likely have a sprinkling of the provincial dialects, spanish, english, chinese, etc. Then what if you meet a naturalized citizen (or even an illegal alien) who can speak the dialect but hasn't gotten around to ironing his or her accent? Mwehehehehehehehe!!!!

 

Asking to unify terminology between an Ilokano arnis style, a Cebuano eskrima style, and an Ilonggo kali style, is a bit like asking Muay Thai, Kyokushin Karate, and Savate to unify terminology.

As students of these styles, I think we should see the differences in terms as inspiration to not just to learn the moves, but to understand the system. If a student truly understands how the Filipino fighting styles work, and how we Pinoys do things, then it shouldn't be too confusing.

"Babel" of terms. Right...

 

i dont know. im soo confused.

 

I study with defferent master they also speak tagalog if some does not they speak english or just wath their muestrascion no need to speak.

 

I cannot see that there is a need to change it. If someone chooses a style, they use the terminologies as per that style. There is not that many people training in lots of different styles to warrent a merge of terminologies.

If the government were to decide on a universal language, you may see some intergration of terms in a couple of hundred or thousand years. Let it take it's course.

Rather than starting a full scale war other something so un-neccessary. Just watch and learn or learn several dialects and show how comitted you are.

Love Lucy :love:

 

Rather than starting a full scale war other something so un-neccessary. Just watch and learn or learn several dialects and show how comitted you are.
Lucy Mentioned..

I'll say LOL I have a hard enough time just hearing my own language anymore and confusing what some one said.

I'll just have to learn the different strikes of the various styles. Are the strikes of Arnis all the same as Remy taught or ???

I was thinking when you mention Serrada Escrima it is Cabales/Giron if someone said Eskrido, I figure Cacoy Canete, Modern Arnis is Remy Precas, Kali is the Dog Brothers or Dan Inosanto, Of course Illustrisimo was Kali. It was so easy LOL.

Now I have to think about more since I have been intercoursing with this new group at MAP.
Now I have put it in my head as FMA and all these different name just tumble out and are there at my finger tips and when I am striking the bags I can relate, if that makes sense???

Then if I was asked to show and tell I'd really be embarrassed for I never am able to do that right, must be old age because I was always right when younger, now I am only right 90% of the time.

The reason I beat on bags they have no knowledge of which strike I am doing they just accept it and keep the secrets.


Regards, Gary

 

It would seem you have been guilty of partitioning/sectioning everything you know into little unbreakable boxes and have now realised the world is not perfect and there needs to be room for flexibilty in your attitude.

Kali is Eskrima, is Arnis. Arnis is Eskrima, is Kali. Eskrima is Kali is Arnis.

They are all FMA....that was Remy Presas meant when he said "it is all the same".

Terms are also insignificant in all things FMA, as actions speak louder than words.

What we call things does not make it hurt any less or any more when using the same strike.

No-body is bothered if someone else calls the same thing something different.

FMA'ers are easy going adaptable people.

I get the feeling people are constantly trying to change the FMA when it does not need changing.

Love Lucy :love:

 

Lucy that would have been good advice when I was a teen HMMM 46 years ago LOL...

You need to read between the lines, I tried some humor, guess it failed.

Gary

 

You are right, I never read between the lines, as this would be making assumptions on behalf of someone else, which I am not prepared to do. It is unfair and often leads to the wrong assumptions.

But I also have never taken you seriously either, if I did, I would probably take offence to everything you say, along with others, as you often read between the lines of other peoples posts and come up with your own conclusions. :woo: In fact sometimes I think you have read a post elsewhere.

Not everything I said was aimed directly at you, or I would have quoted you. I was generally speaking about the fact that FMA does not need changing.....there are other people on MAP too.

Love Lucy :love:

 

But I also have never taken you seriously either, if I did, I would probably take offence to everything you say, along with others, as you often read between the lines of other peoples posts and come up with your own conclusions. Lucy mentions:

I'll mention:
Lol, I think you have shown this trait most of the time. But that is fine, I noticed it long ago...

Regards, Gary