conditioning ideas

Discussion in 'Karate' started by goatnipples2002, Feb 4, 2003.

  1. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    How can I SAFELY condition my Ippon-ken? How do I condition the inner (bone, ligaments, joints) as well as outter hand (skin and nerves)?
  2. Guitarboy1212

    Guitarboy1212 New Member

  3. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    sorry frm wat i know Makiwara is not conditioning equipment...
    it's more of learning correct form
    anyone correct me??
  4. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    Yes, it is used to develop punching power. Some use it to condition the knuckles though. Hitting as makiwara with an Ippon ken will definately condition it. But I wouldn't recommend it.

    Don't try to condition it is the best you can do.

    But if you do decide you have to only hit soft things and start slow. You can do pushups on it, on a soft surface.

    If it hurts a lot, don't do it.

    Just remember, this is a "novelty skill", not a practical one.
  5. Adam

    Adam New Member


    Seriously, punching trees can and will condition your hands very well, if you don't mind the arthiritis and broken knuckles.

    Like Andrew says, start slow, then scale up gradually.
  6. paul paterson

    paul paterson Valued Member

    Conditioning Ideas.....

    Your ippon ken uchi is a weapon that is used for hitting the softer parts of the body and in reality does not need to be conditioned. Think about it for a minute or two, why would you want to condition your one knucle fist when you are hitting an area such as the soft parts of the cheek or the biceps or even the quad's or the temple or any other soft part of the body. The ippon ken is used at close range compared to that of a chudan gyaku tsuki which is a more forward thrusting hit.

    The Makiwara is an ideal way of conditioning the seiken part of the fist, the rear or backhand - haishu, the knife edge - shuto, or any other part of the hand, even the feet, elbow, forearms and shin can be used on the makiwara. The ethos behind the makiwara is NOT to see how hard you can hit but it is about attaining the right feel, force, energy, etc. You are concentrating on the very last moment as the fist screws into the board, your breath and posture must be right and is an aid for finding these elements of your art form. When hitting it, it will be sore and it will hurt, be sure to breath out and kiai as you hit it and aim for small numbers at first, then build up. A good book to read and see how it is done is " Mas Oyama's Essential Karate" or buy Sensei Morio Higaonna's - Power Training video. Both have first class demo's and are one way of seeing how its done before you get to try it for yourself, again go to someone who has been doing Makiwara training for tens of years and has learnt how to do it correctly.

    As for hitting trees, Brilliant stuff..... mind you, do it when no one is about as you tend to get people looking at you. Pick a tree with smooth bark and a tree of soft wood, not hard (not oak but willow etc). Some people wrapp pillows around them but is far too easy, hit the tree as if it were the makiwara itself. Hit walls, hit floors, or get a log and support it in a vice and hit it.

    Please children....donot do this at home.

    You should NEVER, never let children hit a makiwara or tree or any other hard object until he or she is over 16/17 and knows what they are doing. Remember that young kids bodies as still growing and will be soft so please donot be silly and let kids hit these objects.

    Right, enough said.

    So get hitting those trees people....


    Paul Paterson.
  7. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned


    Do not hit a makiwara, and especially do not hit any ****ing trees whatsoever. You could end up not hitting anything ever again by abusing the bones in your hand. Do not prod a punching bag with your ippon ken either. Wear gloves and hit a punching bag.
  8. paul paterson

    paul paterson Valued Member

    YES YES YES.....


    As I said in my last post, the ippon ken is a tool used for the softer parts of the human body. And yes it would be very stupid to hit a tree or makiwara with an ippon ken but as for hitting a tree or makiwara, or anything else with a good seiken, hiza geri, hiji ate etc. Then go for it.... As for "you could end up not hitting anything ever again by abusing the bones in your hand". What a load of mince, think before you speak or write. Just remember that even putting on gloves and hitting a punch bag can be termed as abusing, so please....

    Paul Paterson.
  9. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    yeah, but that way at least you have some form of cushioning for your striking resistance training. I will continue to be a voice of dissent in this respect. I direct you to the shotokan planet for a better sumarising and add that I was told by a serious amateur boxer never to hit anything solid and wooden regularly.
  10. paul paterson

    paul paterson Valued Member


    Ah...then that applies to us mere wee humans who also have solid bodies. Look, listen and Observe...then we can start to learn

    Paul Paterson.
  11. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    When you guys say you shouldn't condition a weapon that is better suited towards softer targets, you sound naive! IF you've ever been in a REAL fight, I SAID IF, you would know that none of your strikes are gonna land where you want them to 100% of the time. So just in case you hit a harder target your knuckle wouldn't break!
  12. JediMasterChris

    JediMasterChris Columbo

    Calm down! :yeleyes:

    You sounds pretty serious for a guy who has the word nipple in his name. :D
  13. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Alternatively you do something quite blatanly obvious to most people, and avoid doing a strike that is, unless it hits target, less effective than a plain and simple punch.
  14. JediMasterChris

    JediMasterChris Columbo

    I agree with CKD on this one.
  15. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    yeah, people have solid bodies, but the fibres in wood present a resistance to the force you apply to it using a punch. It will either break or bend. If it breaks, you break it and the punch propels the pieces of the bit of wood forward. There is also a reaction force working against your knuckles. This could be strong enough to break them or simply to create a serious injury over time. If it bends, the same resistance force applies, but there is no resultant force(assuming your stance absorbs the shock.) If the bit of wood isn't giving way, then you are absorbing the impact with your stance, thus actually WEAKENING your technique. A makiwara is only any use IF it has padding such as will not damage your hands AND it bends enough to offer effective resistance. A much easier way of achieving this is with bag and gloves. If the board smacks back aganst your hand and you do not feel intense pain, you are not hitting the board hard enough. Get your lazy hand in before it creates a problem for you. All the above statements are factual.

    You also want to be listening to CKD about the ippon ken. with a huge amount of training, you just might be able to use it in a real fight. This training would have to include real fights. That said, if you use a large-area technique e.g. palm to chin, gouge eyes, grab hair, jerk head, you stand much less chance of damaging yourself than if you punch them in the forehead.

    Last edited: Jun 4, 2003
  16. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    Come on, detractors! stand up to me!
  17. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    A name is a name. My real name is Goatman, but my close friends tend to make fun of me and call me goatnipples.
  18. Saz

    Saz Nerd Admin

    Hand conditioning is useful, it toughens up the knuckles and hands so that when you thump someone, it doesn't hurt you so much. You carry on and and hit nice soft things if you want, but when you hit hard bone, its going to hurt. If you hand condition, it hurts you less and them more.

    If you seriously think it weakens your technique, test it out. Get thumped by someone who's done years of conditioning, and someone who hasn't done any. You'll see which punch is more effective.

    I agree with CKDstudent too (this is becoming a frequent thing Jim;)), a lot of techinques that we learn in the dojo like Ippon Ken just aren't practical on the street. If your main objective is to save your butt and get out of there, then getting rid of the other person as quickly and efficently as possible is your safest bet.
  19. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    one knuckle punch is 2nd snake fist is the best for me

    personally I have given up on the one knuckle punch because I like the snake fist better. I understand why I don't need to condition my fingers because I strike at the throat and the armpits alot. I can hit these spots pretty hard and cause alot of damage with no unjuries to m, but I have been practicing with this fist for about a year.

    I'm going to marry CV22 because I love that spot! IMO no point on the body gives me the same openings whether I hit or miss! It's my entry attack and follow up attack. Outside of this I like to hit between the armpit and chest muscle with a diagnol punch or one knuckle punch (depends on my anger at the moment, excuse me i mean ki, lol).
  20. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    I'll resist the temptation to be bitchy, and actually try some hand conditioning, then deliver the verdict. If I ruin my fingers it's your fault.

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