I went to watch a MA school which teaches Sambo and Combat Hapkido.... I stayed for the hour, and all I saw them do was work on ground work the whole night... I asked the instructor how much time they spend on the ground and he told me it's 50% ... To me, it just looked like they were doing folk wrestling and that was it.... the instructor is combat hapkido certified by the pelligrino himself.... my question to those who do this are is this.... Is Ground Work a big part of this MA... about 50%? I have seen videos, and im lead to believe that there is so much more to this art.... help.
Really depends on the school. The "core curriculum" of Combat Hapkido is more focused on standup and situational defenses (like defense vs grabs) and the ground survival/ground defense program is an add-on module. Some schools may do a lot and some may not. Our school does a relatively basic ground survival system but we don't spend 50% of the time there... much less actually. Check out www.ichf.com for the "official word" Also check out the monster Combat Hapkido thread for loads of info and impressions to start out with.
I would agree with Thomas. Depending on how long the class is, working an entire night, or even week on the ground, at least in my school, is not uncommon. People seem to forget how encompassing our system is. Focusing on one area at a time, as opposed to trying to work it all every night allows us to remain in good condition in all ranges and positions.
Was the Class you watched in North Branford Conn? (This school ,for example has Sambo as their core art,they also offer several aiki arts in addition to Combat Hapkido) Some schools Teach Combat Hapkido only. Some schools teach other arts in addition to Combat Hapkido. Some schools have a core art,lets say Sambo,and they use Combat Hapkido and or other arts to cover other needs or to offer other styles. At the Combat Hapkido school I attend we work mostly on the stand up aspect, we often work Ground ,not as a sport for Grappling but as Ground Survival. Our school is soley Combat Hapkido with the Core being Hapkido based.
Yes... I was there... were you one of the students that I watched... don't get me wrong... I was impressed by all your wrestling skills but I'm looking for an art that covers alot of take downs, joint locks, and basically an all around great ma... I was told by many masters of different disciplines that the last place you want to go to in a real fight is on the ground.
I am not from the North Branford school,it is one of the ICHF schools that uses Sambo as their Core art,so you will see much more Sambo and ground than stand up. At the School I attend in the Bronx we do Hapkido. We work all Ranges of conflict but the majority of work is stand up. The Ground is not a place we want to go,nor be,so we train employment of Hapkido techniques on the ground and we train getting up as fast as possible,we do not Train Grappling on the ground we train ground Survival and escape from ground to standing. As Said each school puts their own spin on what is taught as the Instructors have diverse backgrounds in other arts,likes and dislikes in what they want to teach and get across to students. The North Branford Conn school has a website that tells interested people that they use Sambo as their core. When looking at schools,if you want Hapkido,you must ask if Hapkido is the Core art or is it an adjunct to something else,perhaps Taekwondo as the core with bits of Hapkido, or Sambo with Hapkido,or Krav maga and Hapkido,or kenpo with hapkido, or Karate with Hapkido.
Don't forget you only watched one class, if you watched my class depending on the night you may think I only teach kick, another night takedowns and locks, another night you might think we only do sparring. My advise would be go along and try it for a couple of months. Rob
I haven't been doing Hap Ki Do for long esp in comparison with some of the other practitioners, but what I've learned is this art is best applied to defending yourself against someone on the street and has many techniques to deal with different situations, for example in White, Yellow and Green belts (at least in my school) there are 18 wrist releases for dealing with a same side wrist grab... and thats not all of them. There are defenses against hair grabs, full nelsons, bear hugs (front and back), head locks, kicks, punches (straight jabs and hooks), opposite side wrist grabs, chokes, lapel grabs.... and the list goes on most of them done in the standing position and often ending up with the attacker on the ground with you on top, applying some sort of joint lock to gain compliance or in a position to strike them in a way to end the confrontation. Like these guys have said some schools teach different things. I personally train in both Tae Kwon Do (to extend my striking and kicking abilities and offer me something to enjoy as a sport) and Hap Ki Do. The suggestion to try out Hap Ki Do is a good one, if you do try it out.. .my best advice would be... stretch and don't tense up the more you fight it... the more it hurts LOL
Hey Rob - I'm a coming to England on a trip this fall. Mind if I visit your club? If I get the time, that is... :hat:
No probs, you're more than welcome! Although this is the Hapkido forum (I posted before because the answer was true of all MA classes) I teach TKD, you are still very welcome. PM when you know your plans, you can maybe meet a few other local MAPpers, grab a beer or 2. Rob
The KWAN I belong to also has groundwork, but nowhere near as much as, say, a BJJ or SAMBO group might. Depending on what your goals are I think it would be worthwhile to take up the invitation offered you to go and attend for a little while. When I say "attend" I don't mean sit and watch, though. Its almost impossible to appreciate what is happening simply by observing. Where I teach people are invited to come in and view the class but its always as a participant. After a few classes its much easier to make a decision if you like the teacher, the material, the ambiance, etc etc etc. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
It always concerns me when people say, "oh we do Hapkido too." They treat Hapkido as an add on, rather than a complete art which it is. This is something I wrote a while back about the same thing: Often I hear the comment, “Oh, we do Hapkido too,” from someone who trains in TKD or some other art. The problem is not with people who have trained in more than one art, but in that many places teach a few joint locks and hoshinsul techniques from a Hapkido curriculum, and then claim they “do” or “teach” Hapkido too. It seems that these people do not realize the fact that Hapkido is a complete martial art, and not something you just “add” onto another style. The schools I trained at in Korea were Hapkido schools, and Hapkido schools only. Hapkido was not a few joint locks added on the side, but the complete martial art that it is, including training in breathing, falling, blocking, striking, kicking, joint locks, throws, forms, weapons, and more. We did Hapkido every class, every day. (And for me, it was two classes a day Monday through Friday and then one on Saturday) To advance through the ranks of Hapkido, you must train in all these areas. I do not have anything against a TKD instructor who wants to teach some joint locks or self-defense techniques from Hapkido to help his students be better martial artists and more rounded. But it should be called what it is. “We practice some techniques from Hapkido,” not “We do Hapkido too,” and advertising as a Hapkido school. There really is a big difference in adding a few things on, and training at a Hapkido school where that is all they do. Now there are some people that have earned the rank in both arts and can teach both. The programs will be different, and not really interchangeable, since a TKD class and HKD class are different, since they are different arts with different emphasizes. And it is interesting that so many TKD schools add HKD, where I have not seen a HKD school that added TKD. I’m not knocking TKD, but it is sort of interesting, don’t you think? And it is TKD schools that seem to “add HKD on” the most. If you are a TKD instructor, and you teach some Hapkido techniques that you have learned in the self-defense or hoshinsul portion of your class, great. Just be sure to let your students know that these are just a portion of what you would learn in a Hapkido program. If you want to learn Hapkido, I recommend a Hapkido program, not just a little added on to something else. The Hapkido program should have its own curriculum and teach all of the things listed above. Note, a school can have a TKD program and a separate Hapkido program, and if you go to both you will find they are quite different, or at least they should be. Or, as I did in Korea , and as you can do elsewhere too, you can go to a school that is Hapkido only. The main thing is to realize that Hapkido is a complete art and not just the addition of a couple joint locks and throws to something else. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com
Hapkido is a full Martial Art, you are right - it's a good one to know, so long as you spend the time to ensure that your strikes and kicks are as powerful as Karate or TKD and as fast and sticky as Wing Chung. Thanks Rob and Mr Simms. I'll take up those offers and message you here or at home when I get the chance - hopefully I'll get a few days or evenings off for all you Englanders (I know yo'all hate British - I hate it too. I'm from LA, not an American...)
And I always participate - why waste time watching, when you could be learning by doing AND watching... It's the only way, man.
That's one of the misconceptions regarding Hapkido. You mentioned the kicks need to be powerful like TKD or Karate. Hapkido does have powerful kicks. Actually, HKD has more kicks that competition TKD. In Hapkido we kick people low and high. And the kicks are not for points, but to hurt people. The problem is so many in the States think Hapkido is just the joint locks, and they add them to something else. Hapkido is a kicking and striking art too. My instructors in Korea are fantastic kickers. I personally am no where as good as they are, but then that has a bit to do with my 4 knee surgeries, hips, and back. But then since I've had neurosurgeons tell me they don't know how I can walk, never mind do all the other stuff I do including martial arts, I'm not doing too bad. (that's another story, but the short version is I've had spina bifida surgery, and my spinal cord spits into two and then comes back together, you can look up diastematomyelia) Regardless, I can still kick low very good and can use those low kicks for self-defense, and I can still kick a guy in the head with kicks too. I just can't kick like my instructors in Korea, and they always told me, it's okay, in real fight, kick low. The point though is that Hapkido has some fantastic kicking, and the kicking is more varied and practical than kicking that just focuses on points. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com
Alain, I hear what you are saying! You spoke my mind. I get VERY annoyed when someone who just learned how to do a wrist lock suddenly knows Hopkido. In Our dojo we have 2 classes 1 hours long (actually 4 classes but beginners don't practice with level 2 and 3, some of the higher levels do go to beginners class, because you can never have enough of the basics). We spend the first part of the class workin on our kicks, and there is a lot og kicks, as well as hand attaching techniques, then there is the take downs, throw forms, self defense, one steps and on and on. We do have additional open gym class on Saturday were everyone can work on their weekness'. Sparring, ground work and weapons are all seperate classes. Hapkido is a VERY powerful Martial Arts form that takes years to practice and perfect. And it covers a full spectrum of attachs and self defense. I am fortunate to have a really good instructor who knows hapkido, and I just talked to him the other day. I went for a visit to a school where the TKD school added Hapkido to their curriculum, I was currios and when to check it out. I was shocked at the poor intructions of the basic hand locks. They did not use their "core" energy but all strengh. Basically, as the instructor was demonstrating how to take someone down he had him way out and was basically using his strength not the energy. Now, this worked because the person he was using was a lot smaller, but you take a guy with big hands and forget it! My instructor, who is also a 3rd degree in TKD, told me that it is one of the problems with TKD instructors that have not really trained in Hapkido, they don't understand it.
I think you mis-understood me, Alain. I didn't say "need". And when will people get over the idea that TKD is a goddamn sport? Just cos it's in the olympics don't mean it wasn't originally a military, killing art. Watching the olympics - I'd be put off TKD for life; it was so boring and pathetic. No offense to any dedicated olympic TKDer's, but it was just plain namby pamby. I said something like "ensure you work so that your strikes and kicks are as hard as...". That means - Don't neglect them over other stuff... "Walk as lonely as a Rhino." or some other signature phrase. :hat:
I got you Pka... I guess I was thinking you were like others who think there is no kicking in Hapkido, or think hapkido is only this or that. Too many people think Hapkido is just a few joint locks, or worse yet, TKD with some Aikido mixed in.... And yes, I realize what TKD originally was, but you find more the Olympic sport now than anything else. But it is wrong to say that all TKD is like that, just like it is wrong to say all HKD is one way. Sorry. Alain www.burrese.com
No probs, A. It's just in the eye of the beholder. Just wanted to straighten that one out. I ain't against people cross-training - I do it. I just think it's a good idea to be the best you can be. If you see something from another art or style and think it's good... Well use it! It's how things progress. It's how things become full and rounded like most "new" martial arts are turning out to be. A few aside of course... *ahem*.
