Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by Williel, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. Williel

    Williel New Member

    I have trained and teach Hapkido for almost twenty years after I became a black belt in Karate. My style is Chukidokwan started by Grand Master Chuck Platten in Canada. He trained in Kung Soon Bok from Korea. I just wonder if anybody heard about Chuidokwan.
  2. Instructor_Jon

    Instructor_Jon Effectiveness First

    I haven't heard of it but I welcome you to Map just the same.
  3. wmks shogun

    wmks shogun Valued Member

    I also agree with Instructor Jon. Welcome! If I happen to find anything about Chukidokwan, I will be sure to bring it to your attention, (probably in a PM in case it is only rumor or second hand knowledge).
  4. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest


    Do you mean Kong Shin Bup with Mst. Pak in Canada? If you have been training for 20 years, why not just talk about your group?
  5. shadow warrior

    shadow warrior Valued Member

    Where in Canada do you teach??
    Just as Kevin says, tell us more about your group.
    I knew a Platten who at one time spent a bit of time as a colored belt in the eighties at Chung Kee Tae's.
    Is this the same guy who sometimes teaches in Miss. Ont.?

    Shadow Warrior
  6. shadow warrior

    shadow warrior Valued Member

    Where do you teach in Canada?
    I knew a Platten who was around as a colored belt for a bit in the 80's at Chung Kee Tae's.
    I heard that he sometimes teaches somewhere in Miss. Ont. Could this be the guy??
    Just as Kevin says, tell us more about your group??

    We would be very interested to learn of a new group!
  7. Williel

    Williel New Member

    Yes, my certificate shows the title of Kong Shin Bup Association. My mster trained under Master Pak. I often heard Senesi Chuck mentioned Master Pak who met each other in Germany. Master Pak then immigrated to US. Sensei Chuck also mentioned that Master Pak passed away in the arms of a fellow by the name of William but I do not not his last name. I did meet William in Mississauga Ontario. He came from Chicago to visit Sensei Chuck.

    My group is called Chukidokwan Combat System based on Kong Shin Bup hapkido. We use Wing Chun, Chinese Kempo, karate and Taekwando as a front end to take an offender down, finishing up in a quick submission. I gained my 4th degree a few years ago and I have been teaching hapkido in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada for years. I started training in hapkido in early 1990's when I was still training in Karate under Sensei Oscar Landry. I have a very small school not more than eight students yet over the years I have produced five black belts.

    I am not sure if Sensei Chuck Platten ever tained in Chung Kee Tae but I have heard of it. He sometimes came around helping me to teach in my school. His pictures should be on

    Willie Lau
  8. shadow warrior

    shadow warrior Valued Member

    Teaching Hapkido

    It looks like you teach a mixed bag of things drawn from most of the major name martial arts, why would you call it hapkido?

    Although there are various opinions as to what "pure' hapkido was and is today, the older guys on the form here agree what it is not.

    It is not an art which mixes many technique from numerous styles together which are not consistent with the root ideas.

    A simple example would be joint look or twisting as it is know. The purpose is to inflict enough damage on the attacker to prevent any further problem, arrest and or control them. It is not a submission art per se. We do not care to put ourselves on the ground for no reason. The bad guys, it seems always have friends!

    A second example would be the unique hapkido style of release kicking taught by some of the second generation hapkido masters. This is not found in other martial arts. Contrary to some opinions kicking is not just kicking, but can and does take numerous forms. Hapkido release kicking is not for sport, but for freefighting.

    The hapkido community is quite small and everyone knows about the people who have been training in this art for decades.

    I was born in Toronto and was involved in the Korean martial arts (hapkido) here for almost 35 years.
    I just learned about you from your post on this forum.

    Do you have a website we can look at?

    Keith Stewart
    Head Instructor
    East West Hapkido
  9. Instructor_Jon

    Instructor_Jon Effectiveness First


    I enjoyed visiting your website and I am particularly interested on your ideas about Hapkido kicking.

  10. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest

    Hello All,

    I agree with Keith, and i am curious as to why if the art is "Hapkido" - or even Korean based, the term Sensei is used? Is it simply a linguistic thing?

    The site is looking great Keith, haven't seen it in a while!
  11. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    I mean no offence by this question. Sincerely. But did the founder of Chukidokwan call it that because his name is Chuck?
  12. Williel

    Williel New Member

    Hi WhitePanda,

    The name Chuck and Chukidokwan sounds similar. However the word Chukido means true chi way as harmonize chi way in Hapkido. Chuck is the nick name of his first name Charles.

  13. Williel

    Williel New Member

    Hi Shardow Warrior,

    It sounds like it is a mixed bag of everything. Chukidokwan is actually based in Hapkido but employs blockings, parrys, traps and pre-emptive from some other styles. I would say that would be about 5 percent and then all the locks are from Hapkido. Where does Hapkido comes from? There are numerous stories on that. Is it from Akido the name of which is actually the same oriental characters "The way harmonizing the chi" or is it from some ancent Korean fighting arts which can be traced back to Shaolin kungfu, like Ha Ran do, kok su wan and soon ran do. Is it what the Korean government try to combine all the styles including hapkido and taekowndo into one art by the Korean University of Kokkiewon. I am oriental yet I think I am more open minded than most of the westerners in North America when we are talking about a pure art. Bruce Lee was trained in Wing Chung but he glorified it with Jit Kune Do yet it is still based in Wing Chung. Funakoshi introduced karate to Japan. Is Shotokan a pure karate, or is it those from Okinawan, or is it actually the kungfu modifed to teach the Okinawans in the early centuries? Martial arts morphesis its techniqes whatever arts it is. I cannot claim I teach exactly the way my master taught me as he was taught by his forebearers. A good techniqe is a good technique and no arts can patent it. I have four limbs and I move them the way I best could and you could name it whatever you want but someone comes along and move the same way, are we in the same style. It is only a set of movements we practise similary and we name it a style, a way, a -do, or a ryu whatever language you favour. The five well know hapkido artist in North America, Chukitae, Jin Pak, Jon Pak, Hilee Choi and Bon Soon Han in my humble opinion all has differences among them. So, I am a pure blood oriental. So what? Does that mean shouldn't I adopt any western habbit? I am sorry being blunt and please forgive me as an old man of late sixty babbling on.
  14. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest

    Umm, OK. most of us here have a pretty good idea where Hapkido came from, thanks.

    So, its only 5% "other things" - yet the instructors are called Sensei?

    And Chukido means harmonizing energy way? So its basically like saying "Hapkido Hapkido"? Just Curious.
  15. shadow warrior

    shadow warrior Valued Member

    Missing influences.

    True Hapkido was never combined with Tae Kwon Do.

    When General Choi (founder of ITF), was here in Ontario helping Master Jong Park out in the early 70's, it was Chung Kee Tae who was asked to add the self defense part to the ITF "bible" at fourth degree!.

    What I noticed in the names of the styles which you site as influences was the absence of any throwing (yudo/judo), jutitsu (Japanese) or DAJJ styles. All of the styles you mentioned were punching and or kicking types.

    Break falling from the simple to complex can only be addressed through being thrown a lot!!

    One of the prime ares of grab defense in Hapkido was developed to counter judo throwing techniques. We learn and practice all basic and effective throwing, reaping and sweeping skills so we can practice against them using twisting and counter throwing among many other counters. It is one of the reasons Hapkido is a long road, just to develop reasonable skills of throwing and falling from any decent height takes alot time.

    I have traveled extensively and seen and experienced martial arts in Korea, Japan, China, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, all over Europe and the US.

    The one thing I can say is that Hapkido done with the skill sets of second generation masters is easy to recognize. Have there been some differences, of course, but they were more of inclusion of such skills as dynamic kicking or fluid boxing influenced punching. The dynamic twisiting and throwing were always there for all to see.

    I have seen countless people who called what they do Hapkido, but it bears very few similarities.This is true all over the states and europe. They look like Tae Kwon Do people who went to a weekend joint lock seminar.

    The problem now is that only one first generation master Co/Founder Ji Han Jae is still alive and most of the second generation master have passed on.

    Masters Chung Kee Tae (retired), Tae Man Kwon, Hwang In Shik (from the Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan films, founder called him the greatest kicker of his generation) and Jin Pal (also a release kicker) are among the few still with us.

    One of the greatest open mat twisters I ever saw in the style was Chong S. Kim of Los Angeles. I had taken my students there almost every year since 1992 to spend time with him before he passed a few years ago. His breathing and meditation techniques were also quite something.

    One of the main protectors and long term defenders of root techniques (the old way),was Kwang Sik Myung. Although, I had only been to his school a dozen times to test (my students and myself), one of the members of this board new him very well when he was alive.

    As far as people having just two arms and legs and they can move the best they can and they are part of a style, I can say that motion is either closer or further from the truth, (the ultimate motion).

    I have been lucky to have had the opportunity to experience (and fight with) so many of the hapkido masters first hand.

    Kenetics, physiology and physics are the references and application is the result.

    Site was upgraded awhile ago, glad you like it.

    Keith Stewart
    Head Instructor
    East West Hapkido
  16. Williel

    Williel New Member

    Hi Sensei Sogor,

    If I may call you sensei I do hope the following idea is not abrasive as I came here with a humble heart. With the exception of Malaysia, Cambodia, Philippians and Thailand most of the countries surrounding China shares the same root of the Chinese languages, known as Kanji in Japanese. The word "Sensei" in Korean, Japanese and Chinese bear the same symbol, maybe slightly modified in the modern days. So, when you say Sensei is Japanese to me it is the same but when translated to English by sound it becomes different. Chukidokwan mean genuine chi school which is no different than the name of the name of your school Jungki Kwan Hapkido. I looked at your logo and consulted some of my native Korean friends your school actually says Ki-Hap-do Hap-Ki-do. Translated to English it says Chi-harmony-way harmony-chi-way. Carefully look at your first two characters for yourself of each column the hapki just reverse itself with the "do" at the end. I do hope I do not offend you. If so I apologize a thousand times (an oriental way of saying apology from the bottom of my heart" Sincerely yours, Willie.
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I took a look and didn't see this.

    I see the logos with "합기도 거합도" - Hapkido Keohapdo (although I think they Romanize it 'Kuhapdo')... which would indicate two arts if I recall: Hapkido and some sort of Sword Art (drawing if I recall correctly).
  18. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest

    I take no offense, but Sensei, while the characters might be the same, any Dojang claiming to teach Hapkido would seem odd using a Japanese moniker for the instructors.

    Our logo says Hapkido and Kuhapdo, your Korean speaking friends should look at it again. And yes, Thomas is correct, it represents two martial arts, Hapkido and Kuhapdo - or way of quick draw (a sword art).

    And Jungki Kwan, while it can be translated in several ways, means "School of Correct Energy".
  19. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    I continue to practice YON MU KWAN Hapkido. However, since my teacher passed I have connected with Master Timmerman of the NKMAA. His particular art is KONG SHIN BUP, though there are areas in his organization for most other practitioners. I mention all of this because I am wondering why, if you have trained in KSB that you didn't simply stay with it and transition into the NKMAA? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

  20. Williel

    Williel New Member

    Hi Bruce,

    It is not that I didn't stay with KSB but my master who was with KSB for some thirty years found the Chukidokwan.......Williel

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