[Choi Kwang Do] Poll for CKD members.

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by morphus, Jul 15, 2004.

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Would you like to see groundwork tech's added to CKD syllibus?

  1. Yes

    18 vote(s)
    85.7%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    Would you like to see some ground techniques introduced to CKD syllabus? :eek:
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2004
  2. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    Yes i would like to see some groundwork added to CKD. It wouldn't have to be too many at first but be something that could be built upon. This i would like see particularly relating to Rape situations.
     
  3. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    If the instructor's capable, sure, but I don't think it should just be brought in overnight. I'd prefer it to be an instructor's choice thing (as it is now almost), with any instructors who don't want to teach it encouraged to send any students who're interested to a specialist groundfighting class.
     
  4. eckythump

    eckythump Valued Member

    I would "generally" concur with the above ,the Instructors HAVE TO be proficient at groundwork before teaching it.I would however have it as part of the curriculum not as a choice.If a school has an instructor who is not up to this then in most cases it should (in time) be possible for other schools instructors to visit and take that aspect or indeed to have at least one suitably proficient instructor at his/her school take the lead when undertaking groundwork.students could of course go to a differing school when a class specifically covering groundwork is scheduled.
    I have mentioned before that I believe students should have no worries about training in another MA if there is something that they wish to add to their Choi kwang do training.I do however believe that basic groundwork should be part of our curriculum as a matter of course.
     
  5. bigalexe

    bigalexe Young 1 with big head

    yes groundfighting/grappling would help the CKD syllabus and i would love to learn it. however i dont think they should be specified by crime but by situation/place (against a wall, on ground, on stomach ect.) and Morphus: with a rape you come out with your life dont you?
     
  6. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    That's arguable, some rape victims would say no. The suicide rate among rape victims is distressingly high.
     
  7. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    When i say rape the first thought generally is the "rape position". This is a little acute.
    Sexual harrasment/abuse is more along the lines i was getting at & dealing with. Also not necessarily ground tech's though that is prob' the ultimate goal of the rapist i would imagine. I'm talking about being prepared for anything.

    I also meant that these tech's should be introduced from the horses mouth & that every instructor should be trained to perform & teach them, keeping the structure.
    This would take a while to filter through but a few easily learned techniques could be introduced quite quickly as most instructors know at least little groundwork/throws/takedowns/locks, those that don't would have the opportunity to train with a CKD instructor who does.
     
  8. Dave Rees

    Dave Rees Old Git!

    As someone who is just about to start CKD but come from a grappling/groundwork based art (Judo) I think it is handy to have some basic knowledge of groundwork. I am not sure how much is taught in CKD but I think throws, locks & especially strangles/chokes are worth knowing. I am looking forward to Tuesday for my first CKD lesson!!
     
  9. Scaramouch

    Scaramouch Lost Soul

    Mixed feelings on this..........

    - on one hand you could argue, of course yes it would be great. Perhaps start with some basic skills taught well and see how things evolve? Get club feed back over time.

    - on the other hand you could say CKD does a good job at covering a long-range fighting and should stick to that. It is a fact that there are existing MAs that have a long history of heavy emphasis on groundfighting. If you want more comprehensive groundfighting skills then cross-train in one of those MAs.

    ............so I suppose I've got a few splinters from sitting on the fence............
     
  10. Big John

    Big John New Member

    Hi All,

    As an individual trying to be the best martial artist I can be, I'm definitely keen on learning grappling/groundwork techniques. However, I'm not sure whether I believe Choi is the right forum to learn it. The worry I have is that Choi is more than just a "self-defence" art. I really enjoy it's peaceful, non-competitive, respectful and encouraging ethos and can't help thinking that introducing full-scale grappling may change the nature of the art (albeit, I think a basic grounding is essential).

    I'm not 100%, but I think I would like Choi, in essence, to continue with its philosophy, which I personally have gained a huge amount from. So, aside from introducing the basic, fundamentals - my feeling is cross training is the way to go. However, I'm always happy to be objective about these things - so please feel free to convince me otherwise.

    All the best,

    John
     
  11. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    Ok - some good feedback here.

    I don't want to be the best grappler, If i did i'd prob' seek out BJJ or some MMA shootfighting & do that rather than CKD. I understand the CKD stance that we are not that type of art, that we are a good stand up striking art & also that we have the best cardio & health program amongst the arts. However i do feel that we should have a basic understanding of being down there on the ground, & how to defend from the ground & how to handle being on the bottom with someone about to pound on you. How to escape from the ground.
    I have a limited amount of knowledge of groundwork, from cross training in Ju Jitsu, but an expert ground/grappler i'm not. I do feel i know what it's like to be down there & how to basically protect & escape on the ground. Something i fear is lacking in choi or at least not consistant from class to class.
    Groundwork/locks & throws don't have to be competitive in any way. You work with your training partner or anyone in class for that matter. As long as there is a set way & standard for training these tech's, i can see no reason for them being absent.

    I want to keep the structure to CKD training!

    I am just an Ee dan, instructor. I don't pretend to have all knowledge of martial arts or even CKD, so this is just my opinion. But i know it is shared by some.
     
  12. Scaramouch

    Scaramouch Lost Soul

    In total agreement with you Morphus on groundfighting (GF). To call yourself a serious MAist its essential to have at least some limited knowledge of GF.

    The way I could see it working for CKD is perhaps to introduce a once a month devoted GF class with initially optional attendance(?). See if the idea takes off then introduce GF formally into the close range syllabus. As you say keep it simple, technical and non-competitive and it'll probably go down well. CKD students will have to experience a little pain though, to keep it real!! Can't do locks or strangles without a little before you tap out.......
     
  13. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    I have some quite timid people in my class & giving them time to cause each other a little pain (just a tiny bit) has been met with some enthusiasm - as long as it is controlled.
     
  14. #1son

    #1son New Member

    I would love to see ground work in the syllabus :love: . (may of done Judo myself if it wasn't the fact that everyone I've ever know to do it had to stop because of injury) :cry:

    GMC has a black belt in Judo, would he have that if he thought ground work of no value? Although he did say that it is limited if your opponent is much bigger & stronger. :cool:

    I wonder if there is ground work in introduced at a higher level as with knife defence? may be the Dan grades could answer that one. :confused:

    In our club we occasionally learn extra things like:
    What to do with if your being strangled from the front, rear & side
    Escaping from a wrist grab
    Arm trap and counter for knife defence (or better run away)

    Haven't done any grappling though. :(
     
  15. Scaramouch

    Scaramouch Lost Soul

    One of the "selling points" of BJJ is that against a bigger, heavier opponent the ground is where you want to be, not stood up trading punches. Helio Gracie the famous BJJ man who popularlied Vale Tudo/NNB fighting in Brazil in the 50's was a small chap (only 60kg) as was the founder of Judo, Jigoro Kano and the legendary Judo 10th Dan Kyuzo Mifune.

    I can see both sides of the argument though...........
     
  16. #1son

    #1son New Member

    I see your point. I guess at the end of the day you stick to your strenths. GMC was TKD ace so kicking (stricking) is his game. Also after watchin some street fights on TV involving multipul attackers the last place you'd want to be is on the floor getting your head stamped on although one on one I'd agree with you, that is if you know what your doing (I don't).
     
  17. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    Of course, the last place anyone wants to be is on the floor in almost any situation, but if.....
    We need some knowledge, it stands to reason.
     
  18. #1son

    #1son New Member

    Agreed. the more the better in any context.
     
  19. Wynnston

    Wynnston Member

    Grappa

    This is (slightly?) off topic but relevant to self defence. I went to a good CKD class a few months back that included a bit of close range stuff (mainly getting out of lapel grabs and choke holds). We were dressed in normal casual clothes and shoes but the real curve ball was the use of disco music and lights whilst doing it! Completely alters your sense of position and timing and makes you really think about what you're trying to do when you can barely see your opponent.

    Finally, I think that CKD's self defence credentials are somewhat hampered by a lack of groundwork / grappling in the official syllabus. Leaving it to the discretion of school owners could lead to big differences in what is taught in various schools and potential confusion about what CKD is all about.

    W
     
  20. Dave Rees

    Dave Rees Old Git!

    Just thought I'd add some more of my thoughts, as a blue belt (2nd Kyu) in Judo & by no means an expert I think it essential to know some groundwork. & it has to be taught realistically, there's is NOTHING like the feeling of being choked out to realise what an excellent weapon it is if ever it is needed!! I used to love grappling & trying to choke someone out, but that may be down to me being a sick bugger!! Also it is very handy to know how to throw someone & not to be thrown yourself. The thing is if you ever tangle with someone on the street the chances are they will not know how to break fall & if you throw them on to a cold hard concrete floor it will have a devastating effect, believe me I know!!! ;)
     

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