It's totally irrelevant how good Choi may be.It's also irrelevant how effective the system MAY be-but after seeing the idiocy in those weapon defenses I don't think this system has much grounding in reality at least as regards weapons. WHat IS relevant is that whether people are training 7 days a week or no the weapon defenses we've seen are suicidal,many of the pre 1st degree belts and instructor level folks we see in vids don't seem to be at a level one would expect-as in the belt test you commented on------ and that evidently even with a large international student body hardly ANYONE must be really putting forth much effort in correct training/teaching,or we'd be seeing better performances. So-why is it that we can find plenty of vids of people who practice Shotokan-Judo-Kali-CLF-Hsing I-Goju-Savate-MT-Greco Roman- etc-etc-etc at a decent level but good CKD is so scarce? With the # of vids up having to do with this system how is it possible that the majority we see is nicht so gut? Answer-Choi may say it's about "lazy" but that's a laugh.It's about having no standards in your org. And who's responsible for that? There are orgs out there who turn out good practitioners year after year,I guess they must get the hard workers and good teachers and poor CKD for some unknown reason attracts all the slackers.Maybe a sociologist should study this trend. Sorry-but the headman is responsible for his org.If not he,who? C'mon-it'$ all ju$t about $$$$$. Collect that test fee and grade 'em up regardless of competency.Get 'em in the door and make sure they stick around-see previous sentence.It's not like this org is unique in that aspect-what's the common term for such places.....McSomething. Those overblown claims at the main site-"has proved to be the most effective martial arts system in the world. "--- "natural, easy-to-learn, sequential movements maximize your body’s force-producing capabilities"---" The system is meant for the average individual who wants to learn real-life, practical self-defense skills"- Hot air.Need to be proven.Haven't been.Won't be.And even if there is "real-life self-defense" somewhere in there the way the system seems to be imparted-(or not imparted?)- makes such claims moot. I've heard some T'ai Chi people over the years blither on about the superiority of TC,invariably they were the people who didn't do any serious martial training and at least admitted they couldn't teach it for function,just health and relaxation or whatever.But TC isn't a single org and hence has no governing body which could enforce standards-something CKD obviously chooses not to do,and has no reason not to- except perhaps monetary fears. Even the Shaolin-do people,for all their ridiculous history admit they're basically an "exercise through forms practice" bunch. CKD should own up to just being a martialcize practice like the above groups.
As someone who has sat and listened to GM Choi, watched his demonstrations and practical applictions. He personally is an incredible martial artist. From a medical point of view, the movements and concepts behind the art are sound. From a self-defense standpoint, there are better arts out there. I would highly suggest anyone who has the opportunity to visit the headquarters and speak with GM Choi or to watch one of his demonstrations to do so. The quality of any art deteriorates the further away from the founder one gets. There are some business practices that he does not involve himself in day to day. Like any business, that is left to others. While they have some training issues I disagree with, I have seen the exact same practices in many TKD and karate schools I have visited.
Well I've just been looking at CKD vids on Youtube. GM Choi can kick fairly well. Fairly fluid punching too but he drops his guard a bit during combos. Everything else....meh. Every video is crap. I've yet to see any real power behind anything. They seem to think that landing a part of the foot on shield equals success but quite a lot of the blows I'd take on my torso and thighs no problem. Actually in Shidokan we regularly hit each other harder when conditioning for knockdown. By contrast there are very few clips of Thai, Kyokushin or even kickboxing pad work where I'd step in and let them land on me without pads.
so if you had a choice of shotokan karate and ckd would shotokan come out top for selfdefence if the karate instructor was say kawasoe sensei
In a heartbeat Shotokan would also come out on top if the instructor was Mrs. Miggins from the pie shop
While I appreciate the sentiment that nothing could be worse than CKD.. there is some pretty ropey ass Shotokan out there. In a half arsed attempt to substantiate my point here is the first video from my youtube search. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85_q_HHkOO0"]YouTube - Shotokan Karate School Montreal‏[/ame] Tell me that isn't total **** water. That's not even from a kid strewn, day centre dojo either - and you know that stuff is out there.
i think with the training i have had over the years ckd is an art to forget when it comes to street fighting,and as bruce lee always said if you can run away do it? the delution continues
I am disappointed with the quality of CKD teaching - my son failed to defend himself at all in spite of being a black belt. He learned from a 5th dan teacher in Wembley, so you would expect better really. It seems that CKD is all about making money and not about the quality of the students.
But what value is a blackbelt to a 10 year old in any MA? I started karate at about that age while some of my contemporaries were pretty tough already without any need to attend a class. I'd have thought a style based more on contact like boxing or judo had a faster more direct impact on self defence but if they don't have the heart for it you cannot force someone to attend a class and learn aggression and awareness, two things bullies often have in spades
Attitude cannot be taught, but it can be developed - the arts you described (boxing and judo) by the nature of the training will develop it independent of the efficiacy of the actual techniques. CKD offers neither method nor methodology - worse still it lies to it's students about what it is teaching them
This art actually seems like the shotokan school i went to i've mentioned it before but ... no fail...its... pass (have to do alot more lessons before next grading) merit (moderate more lessons before grading) distinction (same amount you took for this grading) ...personally...i hate that...no matter what you do, you will get a black belt...i would personally prefer a fail than anything lever than distinction...and i would prefer not to have the belt than get just a pass (my personal feeling tho this is perhaps just pride) ... second they didnt tell me ever or try to find out...explain what kata was for when i asked or know any applications...now i obviously know a moderate amount of applications and have been told what kata is for third...they charged monthly only...no pay as you go system...i dont like this personally i think it screams we just want you money even if you are injured or ill...the choice should be given or just pay as you take the lesson and many techniques were in effective... im not saying all shotokan is bad...shotokan is good...it was the club in my opinion that was bad...a club that just wanted profit, claimed to be the most effective shotokan club...but when i asked anything, it fell on deaf ears...the black belts didnt know an philosphy, applications, and never even once corrected me on a bad kata technique or anyone, it was just doing the same thing every lesson without guidence Im just talking about this club, sometimes its the club and not the martial art...but i just thought this martial art from what has been posted...sounded like this club i went to...i would advise when looking for just one martial art "i want to do karate" for example, look everywhere you can first and compare
Everything else in your post was good but I disagree w/this. Why should an instructor have to keep track of who paid tonight,or last Tuesdsay, and who didn't? Try it,it's a pain in the backside. People also have a tendency to make a point of showing up if they've already paid for a period of time,rather than just being able to drop in when they feel like it-(or when it's free,I'll never do that again!).Depending on the gym/training hall and what's being offered the pay per drop in thing can be a less than optimal situation for both instructor and student. Monthly fees used to be the norm prior to the birth of contracts.I'd say paying a monthly fee rather than signing a 6-12 month contract is not a bad deal. It's not screaming we just want your money.Tho' an instructor still has to pay his rent whether you show or no.Myself,if someone paid me for the month and then I heard they broke their arm the next day I'd give 'em a refund.
Someone please post a video of a CKD practitioner who can actually do Martial Arts. I'm not talking about one who can do forms. I'm not talking about one who can do compliant demonstrations. I'm not talking about one who is in really good shape. I'm talking about one, just one person who can actually fight anyone at a similar weight. I'm talking about contact sparring, or a competition. ANYTHING that shows some measurable Martial Arts skill in a CKD practitioner or instructor.
I have my own theory about how Korean martial arts got to have such quality issues. I’ve gotten the chance to hang out with some “old-school” Korean MA instructors on a close personal level. I am convinced that many Korean instructors who came up in the 60’s and & 80’s view the development of attitude and fighting spirit much differently than westerners. Most people in the US who take Korean martial arts live in areas where actual street fighting is practically unheard of. This was not the case when KMA developed after WW2. Most Korean instructors I’ve talked to are of the opinion that attitude and spirit is impossible to develop through training and that a person is either born with it or not. In contrast, most of us would agree with Hannibal that the nature of hard training develops a certain attitude. It’s my personal opinion one of the reasons that Korean martial arts became watered down was because Korean instructors did try to develop the correct fighting attitude in every student because they thought it was not possible. This explains the attitude of people just sliding by the ranks. Also, most Korean instructors from that era originally taught people that came into the martial arts who already had some street fighting experience (my own instructor talked about getting into street fights in high school all the time). Part of my belief is that that much of the training methodology in KMA was geared towards taking people who already had a few street fights under their belt, and slowing them down, rather than trying to forge a fighting spirit. Just my two cents. Again..just my personal theory. Keep in mind I’m talking about the older generation instructors here, of which the CKD founder seems to be of. I should say that I have no personal knowledge of this system, it’s founders, or any of its practitioners. I’m only basing my opinion on my own experience in Korean martial arts.
I dont see a problem with paying mounthly...it can be very good at cost efficent if you can go to a class regular But if you have work related issues such as shift work, travel cost problems or you are ill for a lenthy period of time...you can end up paying alot for lessons you cannot do, one of my friends at his work place works 7 am till 3 pm on one week, and the next works 3 pm till 7 pm...the next, so he could only train every other week and because there was no pay as you go system, and it was costly for lessons he was not able to always attend, he ended up leaving his club and starting all other again personally...i've seem a few places do a pay as you go and monthly pay, which i would do and i think is a great option...those who do no pay as you go and only a monthly one...i wouldn't, at all, i think the choice should be given for those who cannot make the commitment due to such problems...it may not be easy to keep track of...but it opens up options to those who wouldnt be your student otherwise...and if people are going to do monthly they will, at your place or someone elses...if people want pay as you go, they will there or somewhere else...doing both fills the needs of both
Rider- I'd accomodate someone w/extenuating circumstances like your friend,and refund someone who was ill for a lengthy period (or broke their arm-remember? ),and people who used to travel distances when they were able to I certainly didn't expect a month$ up front. Aside from things like the above however,and this is just me,if I'm going to take someone on as a student they should attend on a regular basis. Hmm,the boxing coaches I've known felt the same way,maybe it's not just me.
I understand what you mean...my teacher is the same with students coming on regular basis, and i feel the same i dont like to miss a class at all, even when injured i'll come to class i just tell my teacher so that focus on other things can be done, when injured you shouldnt ask what you cant do...but what you can...however serious injury such as a broken leg in a cast, i can understand ...i do think it is good however that you would refund someone who is seriously ill and cannot attend class, it not only shows class, care for students...but also exceptions can be made when there is strong enough reason...I've only ever assisted with teaching, but if i was a teacher using a monthly system i would like to do what you have said. I agree with you...i would not mind teaching students who cannot make every lesson, i would give them a pay as you go system, just...different ways of paying to fit certain students, for those who do travel however and do take classes but cannot come as regular as i would like, i would certainly like them to have the displine to contact me and tell me...i have not taught but, thats idealy what i would like...Guess i'll learn oneday if i become a teacher i might be being too open minded about it...but if i was to teach i would teach students if they could at least make 1 lesson a week unless a good reason way produced...i could see the how it would be irratating however
