[Choi Kwang Do] Choi Kwang Do

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by LilBunnyRabbit, Jun 29, 2002.

  1. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    With you so far.

    But this bit isn't totally clear to me. I'm not sure what you mean by the shoulder flip. And when you say the shoulder, elbow, wrist & fist are aligned, do you mean they are in a straight line? Or do you mean something else by alignment?

    Mike
     
  2. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    I seem to recall reading in an earlier post about CKD addressing the 'Habitual Acts of Violence'. I take this approach myself, ie. I'm not really too worried about defending myself against jump spin whip kicks - but I do train to defend against wild haymaker punches for example. Do any of the CKD have a basic list of HAOV that you train to deal with?

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  3. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    Mike, yes the shoulder/elbow rist/fist are in a straight line from the shoulder - out. shoulder flip is just the natural farward role of the shoulder joint while extending the arm to target.

    I hope that helps with that matter.

    Yes we do have HAOV that we train to deal with.
    These would be lapel grab, also done with impending punch - throat grab - wrist grabs - head locks - bear hug/rear and front - hair pulls etc etc, that type of thing.

    Some of our drills are designed to defend against 'the ole haymaker' Wild attack.

    Though we do spinning kicks at an advanced level(brown belt onwards), we do keep it as practical as possible, kicking low for defence, looking for practical targets like the knees, groin, and maybe ribs, the same applies when punching, we don't go for small targets like the temple, or certain nerve points, though we are made aware of them because the targets are too hard to hit when in a stressful, fast moving situation.

    Andrew - I think the that the statement of being better for the practitioner than trad arts is true to a certain extent(my personal veiw). But the statement wasn't an attack on all trad arts, it was originally to point out that we are very different, we actually rarely use this statement any more in advertising though you can still find it if you look for it.
    We may describe our art as non-trad because it doesn't look like trad arts when performed and also has different policies for self defence and also for business.
    As for saying it has nothing for you , you may well think that, but maybe if you trained with us for a while there might be something you can take away and add to your own style - you never know.

    With respect, morphus
     
  4. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    So far, so good. But now I'm trying to make sense of that in the context of your earlier comment about the elbow relaxing just before 'lock-out' would occur.

    Trying to envisage this I'm concluding that your fist doesn't travel back to its starting point in a straight line. Rather its a straight punch that returns to a guard position along a different, curved, path. Am I on the right lines here?

    By the way, don't think that I'm trying to make a critical comparison between your way of punching and mine. I'm just ever curious to examine different ways of solving the same problems. I'm also very concerned to teach students to use natural and ergonomic movements, so if you do have any views that 'nearly' locking the limbs out is detrimental I'd be interested to hear them.

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  5. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Shoulder, elbow and fist are in a line parallel to the floor, never in a straight line with one another viewed from above, only from the side. Travels a few inches past the contact point, then you allow the arm to simply fall, and drop back from the elbow to rest back in guard.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2002
  6. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Gotcha. So (at least as far as the arm movement goes) not unlike a hook in boxing (not that I'm saying its exactly the same, just broadly similar). And presumably a lead hand punch is executed in a similar manner?

    Mike
     
  7. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Almost.

    To start the punch off you torque forwards past the level, so your hips are past parallel, then you throw the punch as you would a rear inwards. The mechanics are the same for almost all of our punches, with a handful of exceptions.
     
  8. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    Mike - hhmmmm... no not really, the punch when first learned/performed can seem like a hook, though this is not correct, it is a straight punch, and when performed correctly with experience it is very different to the hook - takes a lot of practice, to make it flow the right way.

    We do however have a hook punch(round punch) of sorts using the same mechanics and is quite deliberately rounded/hooked.

    There are a couple of factors other than whats been told you need to know,
    You don't move your front foot at all - act as though its nailed to the floor,

    When the punch goes forward (target in front of your face 8 to 12 inches)through the target( i'd say about 8 to 10 inches,maybe a bit more depends on your reach) extending to NEAR lock out, it is the elbow that relaxes first - being dropped to relax back into the body, hand and body following close behind to there original position, but all anatural fall back, not a pull back.

    All CKD techniques are performed from only one ,two at the most stances - this simplifies things.

    I have to admit i'd rather teach this face to face, it would'nt be so technical if i could show it aswell, but this is a challenge and prob' improving my teaching!

    I hope this further helps, maybe i'll get to demonstrate to you some time.
     
  9. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Hi Morphus and Jimmy

    Slightly confused still. Jimmy indicated that the shoulder elbow and fist are in the same horizontal plane (correct me if I'm wrong in that) but not in a straight line. But Morphus is saying that it is a straight punch. 'Straight' to me means that the shoulder, elbow and fist are all, more or less, in a straight line. So now I'm throwing a straight punch but instead of withdrawing along the same line, I'm dropping the elbow back in towards my body as I reach my maximum extension (not as far as 'lock-out'). Yes?

    Mike
     
  10. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    I'd say you more or less got it...it is a difficult concept to get over on the forum.
     
  11. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Well, we got there in the end then.:)

    Mike
     
  12. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Sorry morphus but I'm a great believer in justifiying a technique, why its done and how it works. If I couldn't or wasn't willing to I wouldn't teach it. When we're talking about life or death I think this is VERY relevant.

    Regards

    Colin
     
  13. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    Mis-understandings, common on this thread!

    Freeform - do you mean justify it to yourself and the student your teaching it to, if so well then yes i would justify it.

    But i was actually talking about justifying it to someone who had never seen my techniques and never met in person. How can i justify a technique when i cannot show them it in an application, thats impossible, its easy to argue in words.

    All anyone can say for sure is that 'it works for me', how can someone who you've never met argue with that, but when you say 'i do it like this' this is very easy to argue with.

    If someone askes 'what art do you do'?
    i answer 'Choi kwang do'
    they look puzzled, cos they don't know what it is,
    I tell them about it, they understand a little better,
    If i show them what it is they understand a lot better.

    Its like the 4 blind men describing an elephant, each decribes it differently because each had only used some part of the elephant as the base of there analysis.
    You have to have the whole picture to fully understand.;)

    Yours with respect, morphus
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2002
  14. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Inwards punch is the technical term that we use (anuro jirugi), but the trajectory is a straight diagonal line. A way we used to explain it was to imagine a square with your shoulders as two of the corners, the trajectory should head towards the opposite corner.
     
  15. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    How does that differ from a boxers 'cross' Jimmy?
     
  16. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    In many ways it doesn't, the mechanics are very similar. Boxer's have good crosses, so we use similar principles. If something works, why break it?
     
  17. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    So why do you guys call it an Inwards punch then? If it's essentially a cross, why confuse people?
     
  18. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Because the majority of our students have never done boxing, and an inwards punch is a nice, simple descriptive term. Why call a particular kick a front kick? It differentiates it from the other kicks, describes the target and is a nice name for the technique.

    Why call a uniform a do bok? Why call a school a dojang? Why call an instructor sabanyim?
     
  19. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Personally I knew the terms Jab n Cross form age four. I think people are far more likely to recognise said technique as a 'cross' than an inwards punch mate.

    Titles being descriptive is great, but if it ain't broke, then don't fix it! 'Cross' works fine!

    "Why call a uniform a do bok? Why call a school a dojang? Why call an instructor sabanyim?"

    I don't!
     
  20. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Also people have preconceived ideas about a cross, which don't necessarily match with the actual technique.

    Actually inwards punch is a translation from anuro jirugi, so blame the koreans.
     

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