Choi Kwang Do - A review

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by Aegis, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. Xanth

    Xanth Valued Member

    This guy isn't bad, but I personally dislike arts in which you have say "pssh" at each technique to appear that you are so fast that you are cutting the air in half. I know some will argue that it's a KI technique or whatever, but I can't help but laugh when I see people doing it.

    [ame=""]‪Tommy Crouch 2008 Chun Kuk Do‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]
  2. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Ok then let's look at it from your perspective. You say that there are no bad Martial Arts, only bad instructors.

    All the instructors suck.

    The instructors instructors suck.

    The founder doesn't suck, he just revised all of his stuff into a sucky version and taught it to all the top instructors. Oh and he added boxing punches to the forms, which pretty much defeats the purpose of boxing. Because they don't actually do any boxing. Just no contact patty cake.

    So all the instructors suck. It's the same thing as CKD sucking.

    But prove me wrong. I'd like to see one CKD practitioner or instructor that doesn't. Never seen a scrap of quality out of a single one of them, not even for a second.
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I too have seen bad examples of said arts - however I have also seen GOOD examples (and on occasion SUPERB examples) of said arts as well

    CKD has never put out anything but absolute crap...ever
  4. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Bear in mind that the original article was based on my experiences actually training with this group for some time, so it's not just looking at videos online.
  5. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    What on earth was that? Was it CKD?

    Where the non-linear non-jerky kicks and punches that CKD-ers go on about?

    And why was he doing a karate kata (Kusanku, aka Kanku Dai)? A shonky version of the kata to say the least, but unmistakably Kusanku.


  6. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Video title says Chun Kuk Do, so it has the same abbreviation but a different actual name.
  7. Nojon

    Nojon Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein

    The invention of..

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  8. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Just to get a video of the actual style in question into the thread, here's another black belt grading. This one has knife "defences", though I'm not sure how accurate a description that is given that several of the defenders actually walk straight onto the blades...

    [ame=""]‪.‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]
  9. Xanth

    Xanth Valued Member

    at first I lol'd :wow: , then I cried :cry: , then I think I threw up a little in my mouth...:jawdrop:

    That looked like low gup level technique, not low dan level. I'm sure everyone filmed tried their best, and I wish them luck....but wow
  10. mrmg06

    mrmg06 Valued Member

    That's being awfully generous
  11. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    Uhhhh, as someone who used to teach CKD that was pretty bad. I'm not totally familiar with this school but the beginning example of two on one sparring was pretty poor. Maybe the training in the UK is different than here in the states but I would have put up several of my colored belts against those BB candidates and would have won.

    I did like the bag work, I never trained knife defense to my classes, and I think there were some good effort put forth by the short haired young lady. Intensity, effort, and confidence...
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Why do people put stuff like that up for all to see (let alone actually doing it)?
    It baffles me.
    Even if you'd never trained in any other martial art except CKD just a quick look on youtube would show that what you were doing was lacklustre. It's not like CKD exists in a bubble.
    The woman with the pink gloves at the end for example. I'd let her hit me without holding a pad. No power. She should go back to basics and develop some power in her straight right/palm.
    When she can hit with power with that add an elbow. Then a knee. She should really drop all the backfist spinny kick nonsense as it's just clouding the issue of hitting a pad with power.
  13. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    I was slightly confused by what "il dan" meant. Maybe I'm colour blind but some of those students already seemed to be wearing black belts. However, looking it up I see that il dan means 1st dan.

    Either way, I can only say...Wow! But especially when it got to the padwork. Wow!

    Do the students really believe they've learned to generate any degree of power?

    The best I could say is that one or two of the girls showed some spirit.

  14. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    OOOOH hahaha I LOVE it!!!!!!:happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy:
  15. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    I'm assuming they have black belt and then 1st dan or something. Either that or they're wearing really dark brown belts in bad light, I dunno.

    The other thing to consider is that they have about 9 gradings between 1st and 2nd dan, so it could be one of the gradings within 1st dan...
  16. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    WTF??? can you say £$£$£$£$ keeerrrchiiiiing £$£$£$£$?
  17. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Oh, absolutely! 18 gradings to 1st dan, 9 more to 2nd, 6 more to 3rd. Good for no-one but the ones who receive the grading fees!
  18. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

  19. gorinnosho

    gorinnosho Kendo Addict

    Schools started opening up in my state. Adds with "Instructors wanted" flashing on the screen alarm bells started ringing. When you black belts don't look very comfortable performing a technique, warning sign 2. If your school isn't bad i think your numbers will stay for a bit, but sum will commit. the fact the indevidual school in the videos numbers spike and fall is a bad sign too.
  20. santiyo2000nfo

    santiyo2000nfo New Member

    Hi, So 5 years on I would like to give my opinion.

    I've training in CKD for over 4 years and will be getting my black belt this summer.

    I consider myself to have a good natural ability but also good at performing what CKD teaches.

    During my training i took 1 year out which dramatically effected my performance, im still suffering from my time away.

    I have come to a certain conclusion with CKD, at times I was sceptical and other times simply put off. Here are a few key points:

    The Teacher.

    The teacher is what makes the class, the atmosphere, the teacher is everything. I have had several martial arts teachers and 2 CKD teachers. The first teacher I had taught a big class, thus his attention to detail was minimal, I found myself getting into bad habits which where not rectified autonomously by the teacher but by my queries. The teacher was a 4th dan but didnt really 'coach' his students, mearly gave information away, regardless I did learn from him but only by being attentive and pushing myself to learn, if that makes sense

    My current teacher is a complete other story. He is very attentive, his level of knowledge of each technique is staggering, In no martial arts have I ever had a simple front punch described to me in such detail, the intricate level in which a simple movement can be broken down into literally blew my mind (albeit demoralised me slightly realising that I had been taught things incorrectly/ got into bad habits in the past).

    This teacher is what makes CKD for me, His knowledge base is not only huge but it also 'just makes sense', It *clicks* with me. I am generally a very negative/realistic person, so if someone tells me lots of facts I will 90% of the time (in my head) double guess them so for me to trust this teacher and for his knowledge to appeal to me took a high level of respect to be gained.

    Going off the initial post. It seems to me like you had a class like my first teacher gave them. Ok but not really realistic to real life and if you make a mistake you'll probably not be corrected. Its unfortunate that you had such a negative experience. I choose to believe that your views and finding where in fact unbiased with no ulterior motives, however, If your intention was to research this martial arts wouldn't it be a fair test to seek out several teachers? Several classes? It seems to me that your methods where slightly lacking in finding accurate results. The analogy that comes to mind is in trying to discover what the sport of 'Football' consists of you ended up training with one, and only one team. Would your experience of that event give you an accurate picture?

    I think most people understand this but its good to remind ourselves now and again, even with Youtube videos, these are just individuals representing how they as individuals conduct themselves. One thing that seems to be likely is that CKD has had some poor teachers in the past which led to a generally negative image.


    In my experience the cost has been OK, yes the gradings are expensive I agree, with my current teacher he offers 6 hours a week for £65 a month. My older teacher was £50~ for 2 hours a week. Cost is something that they as a MA have the right to manipulate however they wish, it is my choice to accept that or not. In my area however these costs are quite reasonable, My parents teach dance (not the same i know) and they charge 10-16 per class, and a lot more for weekends.

    I have at times felt that CKD was a way to farm people for money, this is mainly because I think its almost impossible to fail a grading... This does put me off but again, I am aware of this and i choose to continue to get the most I can from the classes, which brings me to my next point.

    self motivation.

    One thing I've found in CKD is that it is more relaxed then other martial arts (in a physical stress sense), I've done capoeira classes where im almost throwing up just from the warm up, Classes in Argentina of TKD where I'm slipping on my own puddles of sweat. In CKD its all about what you put in, I appreciate and understand that sometimes we seek a teacher to push and motivate us, but CKD is not a place to get super fit, unless you want to.

    In the punch bag drills, or speed drills, do you go at a steady pace? or do you push yourself?

    I am not saying that CKD is right in doing things this way, but simply that this is how they do it.

    A benefit I've seen is that people from all ages and fitness backgrounds can actually do a class and learn some MA, there are not countless pushups/burpees for them to do. CKD for me was actually a gateway into fitness, since before CKD I did almost no exercises.

    so to conclude on this point, You learn, you get as fit as YOU want, the control is much more on you rather then the teacher, Good/bad? I'm not sure but my fitness is increasing all the time regardless.


    There was something written in the post about movements not being circular... I'm not sure where this stemmed from as even the standard 'punch' is circular, In fairness it would be more accurate to call the movements elliptical.

    What I appreciate about CKD is that It sort of feels *right*, i cant explain it fully, but something about the way the techniques are threaded together and the flow between sequential movements makes sense to me.

    Again its all down to the teacher. Being nearly a black belt I am still trying to master the 3 primary blocks, I know this sounds bad, but to clarify it is my belief that I can block very well but what im getting at is that with CKD there seems to be so much information involved that I am still constantly perfecting. For Example, the Upwards block has so many details attached to it that its literally almost impossible to fully master . I appreciate that maybe some if not all MA's in the world have an abundance of data available for each technique but regardless I am saying that CKD ALSO has these distinctions and from experience they are completely different from anything else I've studied. These details, in my opinion, reflect a modern understanding of the body and mind, they seem like natural movements which where studied, broken down and improved.

    In my opinion CKD *is* modern in its technicality.

    Non contact.

    Something that jarred me constantly in the first year of CKD was the lack of contact. Yes white belts are taught to pair up, move up and down in a line dodging attacks from an opponent 3 feet away. Yes, it was frustrating, and yes it was boring, useless? I don't think so. I believe that what CKD does it different that's all, whether its better or worst is neither here or there. This is a system that has chosen to stick to this method and personally I find that quite appealing. To perhaps shed some light on the subject of the white belts punching and blocking the air between them; I was taught that this was to teach early on the footwork needed to distance yourself from your attacker. Not just with the movement of the feet but the infuriatingly difficult to master; 'shifting back' of the blocks. It teaches you to reflect your enemy, for me it makes sense as a method of building confidence, Another benefit I see is that the defender can concentrate on the details of his primary techniques without fear of being punched while still being able to simulate a 'contact' situation.

    I am aware that there are many many negative points to everything that CKD is, but i believe that is the same with every martial arts. What im doing here is concentrating mainly on the positive aspects.


    I admit, i was slightly disgruntled to read the opinion of the first poster regarding white belt patterns, patterns in my understanding are created for a wide variety of reasons, a pattern is effectively meant to be repeated again and again and again and this supposedly is a form of meditation and inner focus. Ok so an white belt isnt going to reach nirvana, and to be honest I have never either, but what is the white belt learning? he/she is learning to DEFEND and COUNTER. the simplest of the simplest. Later on patterns teach many things one being combinations. The Patterns are designed to teach you how to block and counter. Anyway, this is pretty self explanatory so ill leave it here.

    Conclusion and final words

    OK! so I've prattled on and frankly I'm getting tired of writing this. My motivation was to be able to tell a different side to the story. I'm not a teacher or assistant instructor, Its not my job to advertise CKD nor am I a fanatic. I take it as it comes at times and other times i focus more.

    I think that CKD is a very *interesting* MA, with a lot of potential to teach you something you never knew even existed.

    The point is GET A GOOD TEACHER! Somehow who will break down a side kick into such intricate detail that you feel like you need to take notes.

    Remember that I have admitted that I have had bad experiences with CKD, I feel like I am learning everything from scratch all over again with this new teacher, It is frankly embarrassing as I am one of the senior students and at times I feel like I paid a lot of money and invested a lot of time learning things that where not only incorrect but caused me to have to RE-Learn things again in the future, Anyone with experience will tell you its easier to learn something right the first time than correct yourself later.

    If anyone is interested i hearing more feel free to ask. Take care

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