So now Brown wants intelligence separated from government... shouldn't be too hard... in fact I'd've said that was another trad aspect of Britishness...!
I agree there is a distinction to be made between "British" and "English" and for me, that distinction is where you personally feel allied. I would consider myself British. My family history is spread right across these isles and that's what I'm made of. It's a very personal thing. As for what makes someone British (for some, read English)? I think a pretty self-effacing, cynical outlook, humour, resilience and a huge sense of morality that draws a line not to be crossed. Witness the conflicts in modern history (excepting Iraq II and Afghanistan - that's Blair's mess, nothing to do with the majority population!). When Britain feels aggrieved it acts and overcomes overwhelming odds time and again. Politicians beware - there's a history of mob mentality in Britain - it doesn't pop up often, but when it does, batton down the hatches. A nice light hearted look at this is the Ealing Comedy "Passport to Pimlico" when a historical curiosity leads part of post war London to declare independence. Good fun but sums up the British spirit for me.
Personally, I see 'multiculturalism' as simply being a recognition of reality, rather than the bogeyman which certain sections of the media like to pretend it is. What is the alternative to multiculturalism? To pretend that we are all as English as Enid Blyton, or to try to force people to adhere to some outdated notion of 'Englishness' just to make the editor of the Daily Mail happy? That is one example of 'political correctness'. Another example would be the fear of following your own culture or religion in case it offends those who want to pretend that we are all the same. It is becoming very trendy to knock 'multiculturalism' - so which is the real 'political correctness' now? I realised that you are London-based, but I'm sure you once used some ghastly Americanism like 'gotten', and so I have assumed ever since that you were an American living over here! Apologies for defaming your good name.
But the fact of the matter is it encourages people to segregate into their own cultural communities. While I’m got saying everyone must all covert to a single culture, people should to what they can to integrate into the community, and into society, and part of this is acknowledging the culture of the host country. Tell me where I advocated force? Otherwise strawman. Another strawman. Since when did I assert that we are all the same? I’m simply referring to the matter that nothing, at all, should be protected from rational criticism. Political correctness stops this.
How our current "politically correct" multiculturalism policy is not working: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6174303.stm
People tend to form their own cultural communities anyway. 'Multiculturalism' is simply a recognition of this fact. I didn't say that you did advocate force. I was making the point that there is no realistic alternative to 'multiculturalsim'. Please try to keep up. You're really on a roll now Homer! It's like trying to have a conversation with an eight-year-old who'se just learned a new word! No kidding, Einstein!
Nothing wrong with cultural communities - the problem starts when they become physically isolated communities...ghettos if you like. Then there's absolutely no incentive to integrate - same language spoken everywhere, including all the shops... signs in health centres all in your own language etc etc - no need to go outside your own community for anything. This breeds exclusion - both for the people within that community and for people from outside...by this I mean my own experience of living in Preston, Lancs. I had to walk through Deepdale to get to work. Those that know Preston will know that this is a predomininantly Asian area. I was subject to racial abuse and significant threats to my safety several times over as a white guy in "their" area. And then we all wonder why there are riots in Burnley and racially motivated attacks? Simple - no integration. No incentive to ever do so. All the myths and misunderstanding have their perfect breeding ground maintained. Can't help feeling it's all too far gone. Contrast this against a Mela festival that I went to where I live now. Here, there's no distinguishable geographic community, but at the Mela, there was a celebration of all the cultures in the town and it was a great day in the local park attended by just about every culture you care to think of. This was multiculturalism. One culture ghettos are not multiculturalism in action, yet social policy and political correctness allows this to happen unchecked.
The 'ghettoisation' effect is a bad thing, but it isn't the result of 'multiculturalism'. People emigrating to another country will inevitably tend to start off living physically close to friends and relatives who have already settled there. Hostility from the 'host' comunity tends to be the biggest factor in encouraging many immigrants to stay within their 'own areas' where they feel safer. I think this is why it tends to be in the cities that you find a better 'upward movement' from the original starting neighbourhoods out to the suburbs, whereas in smaller places it tends to be much harder; so the 'ghettoisation' effect is much worse in places like northern mill towns (e.g. Dewsbury) than in a large multi-cultural city (e.g. Leeds.)
Why do we need a British national day? We have St Georges day, If anything that should be a national holiday!
Nah...why celebrate some Turkish religious zealot? Plus there are already bank holidays at that time of year - something in the stretch between August and Xmas would be nice. Trafalgar day has been mooted a few times (October) - a commemoration of Britain's victory over Napoleon's plans to invade britain. There's also Battle of Britain day (September) - commemorating "The Few" that overcame overwhelming odds to stop the luftwaffe gaining air superiority which would undoubtedly have led to the unstoppable land invasion of Britain by Nazi forces.
True, but with the whole scotland and wales potentially succseeding it kind of made sense i thought, also they both have there own flags, any united nation would have just a the one! Its all very confusing methinks!
I agree to some extent Johnno! But there are plenty of ghettos is Leeds, Chapletown and Little London spring to mind. My dad lives in Dewsbury, and it isnt as much a ghetto as say Chapeltown, Dewsbury and Mirfield are nearly all asian and are actually nice areas now.
Yes, people probably tend to group with others who share their identity, but we shouldn’t encourage this, as it encourages people to segregate, while it discourages wider community kinship and cooperation. This is what multiculturalism is. It isn’t simply a recognition of the fact people tend to segregate themselves, it is the encouragement of it.
Chapeltown isn't a 'ghetto'. It's well dodgy these days thanks to all the muggers and drug addicts, but racially it's a very mixed area, so it's hardly a 'ghetto'. And Little London is just a dump. Well if you compare Saviletown or Ravensthorpe with areas like Mirfield or Westboro, then the contrast is marked. I don't think you get such a polarisation in big cities like Leeds, because being far more multi-ethnic you don't tend to get such an us-and-them attitude from the locals.
lol! chapeltown isnt a ghetto?? thats a first! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapeltown,_West_Yorkshire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto- check the UK bit.
