Changing WTF training methods

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by TKDmmafiter, Jun 14, 2006.

  1. BigRed389

    BigRed389 Valued Member

    Yeah, and by then it's too late. A solid bareknuckle punch to the face will stun you very, very badly, if not KO you outright.
     
  2. TKDmmafiter

    TKDmmafiter Valued Member

    Nobody ever said olympic sparring is the end all to self defense. Stop complaining. And he's right. It IS a natural reaction to cover your areas.

    Olympic sparring is meant to develop your kicking prowess in a resisting environment.
     
  3. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    Uh...no they don't...that's why they're already changing them...that's why they've changed them before...
     
  4. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    I watched the re-runs of The Ultimate Fighter Series 3 today. At one point, a trained fighter, had to be constantly reminded to keep his hands up.

    This is a man who trains in a full contact, MMA setting, who cross-trains in boxing, who spars with head contact.

    If even he can have problems keeping his hands up to avoid getting clocked, what makes you think that an Olympic TKD fighter with ZERO!!! skill in punching and dealing with fist shots to the head is suddenly going to be able to pull a decent high guard stance and learn to deal with punches to the head?
     
  5. BigRed389

    BigRed389 Valued Member

    Exactly.
    If you don't "get it" then it just means you have never tried boxing before.

    I was in the military, and could crank out 90 pushups when I started boxing, and my hands STILL would drop during even training.
    And a year ago I introduced a friend of mine who's a NCAA swimmer(if you know any swimmers...you'll know they have INHUMANLY high pain tolerance/endurance) and even he couldn't keep his hands up during drills when he started.

    Not to mention being unfamiliar/inexperienced with boxing techniques will get you absolutely annihilated by an experienced, surgical boxer.
    By which I mean so maybe you do keep your hands up. Good for you. That won't save you from the uppercut sneaking up out of nowhere.

    This is another problem I see with WTF practitioners...this overconfidence/arrogance that your skill in TKD will mean you'll be ready to "handle" other threats...that you can take a hit and adapt well enough to escape back out to kicking range and other ideas like that...

    Except it won't happen like that. If you really, truly are good at WTF TKD, think about how badly you demolish a white belt when they first spar.
    Well, when you've closed to boxing range, YOU become the white belt.

    And I'm not even going to bother going into MT clinch techniques, takedowns, and grappling, but those are even more dominating styles which progressively take away more and more of the opponent's options.

    So goddamit, go crosstrain, expose your ignorance, and learn.

    PS - I'm also absolutely amazed everytime I see a new student come into my boxing/MT classes and see EVERY SINGLE ONE make the same training mistakes!
    One basic counter for a jab we drill is a right hand scoop while you also jab right back.
    But the new kids...every single one NATURALLY tilts their head back, exposing their chin.
    Let's face it...how many people NATURALLY drop their foreheads into a fist to take a punch? Nobody does...the NATURAL thing is to back up from the threat...which exposes your buttery chin to the experienced boxer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2006
  6. Cuchulain4

    Cuchulain4 Valued Member

    anybody?
     
  7. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    The ITF club at my university spars point sparring stop and go with helmet, hand and feet/shin protectors, no throws, no clinch, no ground, but allow punching to the head and kicking to the head and chest.

    But from what forum ITF people tell me, this isn't really the norm. Its generally continuous with punches to the head and kicks whereever. Usually the taped events I've seen with national competitions shows very minimal gear.
     
  8. MaverickZ

    MaverickZ Guest

    not in the right way


    wrong


    wrong
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2006
  9. Sang

    Sang Valued Member

    This thread is getting nowhere. If you don't like WTF TKD sparring rules then don't expect a drastic change to anything like Kyokushin or MT rules, it'll never happen. If you want to take part in more hardcore fighting tournaments then find a MMA, MT or Kyuk Too Ki club and train to be a top fighter. If you think something's missing from WTF TKD then find it in another martial art or find a proper old school TKD club that spars under rules similar to MT. Let's stop the chidlish arguing and the arrogance. Remember the TKD tenets: etiquette, MODESTY, SELF CONTROL, indomitable spirit and perseverence.
     
  10. TKDmmafiter

    TKDmmafiter Valued Member

    you're always wrong
     
  11. Sang

    Sang Valued Member

    Come on guys let's stop all this stupid arguing, it's really immature.
     
  12. Cuchulain4

    Cuchulain4 Valued Member

    Okay. So why dont the WTF guys who want less restrictive rules just switch to ITF?

    Its all TKD right?
     
  13. Sang

    Sang Valued Member

    A lot of them do but you're not allowed to KO people in ITF tournaments unless you compete in full contact ITF tournaments which are quite rare. A lot of WTF people who want less restrictive rules like to learn and compete in FULL CONTACT hardcore tournaments like Muay Thai and MMA where low kicks, elbows and knees are allowed and winning by KO is the aim, not points.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2006
  14. neryo_tkd

    neryo_tkd Valued Member

    Maverick, your posts are not really the type of posts that we won't.
     
  15. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    Won't what?
     
  16. Cuchulain4

    Cuchulain4 Valued Member

    I think he meant want
     
  17. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    You mean she meant "want".

    Gotcha.

    Well, I'll say this.

    The majority of Mav's posts in this thread are addressed to a troll. This person has been banned from MAP on numerous occassions, and Bullshido even more.

    He starts threads about the same thing, and gets in the same arguments, expecting that others will have changed their mind over time. He never deals with the arguments or debates themselves, just continues to assert over and over again the same dogmatic views.

    He's lied about his age on this forum, until he got caught and KickChick had "adjust" his profile for accuracy.

    Do an IP check on this poster, and then run a back check on threads he's started here under other names.

    He often posts as though has experience in other things, such as groundfighting, grappling, boxing, Muay Thai, or whatnot, but upon questioning, is often found to be lacking in actual knowledge of those subjects.

    This is not an age related criticism, as there are many here on MAP and on other forums younger than this poster who are quite capable of having rational conversation, and are honest about their strengths and failings. Kidosool is an excellent example of this, and in some areas, I will admit his knowledge of KMA lore is greater than my own (and if you know me, you know I don't admit things like that easily).

    Both Maverick and myself have had excellent discussions in this thread, and others, with those are willing to actually discuss the topic itself in a rational manner. Is Maverick a bit more rough and flamboyant than I am? Yes, but then, like he said, I'm good Ash, and he's bad Ash.

    But I suggest those jumping to criticism look at what he's saying, rather than the manner he's saying it.

    And look at who he's saying it to.
     
  18. MaverickZ

    MaverickZ Guest

    The main issue is that those points have been addressed, multiple times. Would you prefer we answer the same questions over and over and over and over? Is that a better use of this forum?

    Anyway. As far as my real opinion on what the WTF does, I couldn't care less what they do. Nor the ITF. I do what I do and none of them will ever influence me. They are all too busy with politics to be real martial artists.

    The issue that stands is that TKD is a joke of the martial arts world. And the WTF rules have certainly contributed to that. If you all are happy with that, then I can't help you. You must want the change.

    If your kid brother starts doing heroine, you just gonna throw him out of the house?

    I dunno about you, but I can't stand by and just watch things happen. That's not my personality, I like to be in the dirt with my nose to the ground. And I see what TKD has become and where it's going, and I can't let that happen. Now, I don't have time to open a school, so I train right. And I pass that example to anyone who I come in contact with. Just ask the hundreds of people who have been to the college TKD club I was a member of.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2006
  19. Liam Cullen

    Liam Cullen Valued Member

    Ok, but just getting back to sort of the original question, how would you change TKD? How would you like to see people training, and how would you like to see competition sparring develop?
     
  20. Cuchulain4

    Cuchulain4 Valued Member

    No, Kick his ass then throw him out.

    just kidding, good analogy.
     

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