Cebuano Escrima Beyond the myth by Ned Nepangue, M.D. and Celestino Macachor"

Kali seems to mean a lot of things in the PI depending on the launguage or dialect, but overall accross the whole region it for some strange reason does not seem to mean FMA???

So can I ask you again.

Where did you first hear the term Kali in the Philippines in regards to FMA, who told you it was Kali, when did they tell you, were where they based in the Philippines, what style/system in the Philippines was it?

I/we are curious, I/we need to know, for if you know something we dont, you should tell us so we can investigate and find out the truth.

Please dont skip around the question this time, just tell us.

Your Brother

Pat

 

Hi Bro.Pat , Eversince Iwas a kid in school... If you wish to find out that I have the lineage and they tell everything about our Natives arts .You must stayed and born there or have your life spend in our country. Note the Filipinos today is very defferent to the natives but they have both commons in their culture,arts and etc. During that time I was also too intrigued about our natives arts.Estoccada was only a Spanish word if I translate it in Tagalog I will say it Sundutan and this much sound funny to us...

 

I understand Bro, but that did not answer my question of who, when and where you heard the term Kali from.

Obviously you beleive it to be an older term for Eskrima / Arnis, but surely you must have heard it in the Philippines, after all it is used so widely in the west someone in the Philippines must have used it before the mid 20th centuary, we just need to find out who and if you can tell us when, where and who you heard it from that may take us a step closer to seeing if what some would have us beleive is correct.

Best regards Bro

Pat

 

Most of the the information about our natives arts have their own term this eskrima,we call it tinigbasay or tagaan .Ana arnis which taken from the latin word "ARMIS"means weapons(sandata) in filipino...take note of Sugbo this would the same as the tao sa suyug (Tausug) means "people of the current"back to sugbo (suug current and bo people or place).Example Kalibo this we can translate as "black people" so by Kalikasan(nature) it was been there.And we cannot provide you any written their is no written manual about our natives arts...it is transferred orally but I assure they really exist .Why they discovered Troy through the descriplions of the poets Omero,the myths and legends is very important to us... Mabuhay Gat Kalislash

 

That's all very well and good Bro, but it still does not answer the question of where, when and from whom you first heard the term 'KALI' as refered to as FMA.

So are you actually saying you never heard the term Kali (The FMA) in the Philippines or not???

Best regards

Pat

 

Hi Bro. Term Kali means to a persons arts and Filipino refers to the Spanish who were born to the island...was name also as Insulares.We are called Indios and the others were called Moros .Many of some manusripts written by the Spanish and the natives write only in the leaves and bamboo slats.Also they do not write coz of some reason :Beliefs and they passed through orally and that is the way they believed.Their is nothing defference with western world...as they believed with god Mars . Mabuhay Gat Kalislash

 

huh? i don't understand!

kali means what?

kung gusto mo, itagalog mo, isasalin ko (if you want, post it in tagalog, i'll translate).

 

So you have NOT heard the FMA e.g. Eskrima and Arnis refered to as KALI in the Philippines then, is that what you are trying to say????? If not PLEEEEEEEESE tell us who you know in the Philippines told you it was Kali? When did they tell you? Where? and what style/system/school did they belong to? As so far your answers are actually not answers to the question possed and are rather vauge.

And if you have never heard Kali being used to describe the FMA in the Philippines just say so.

Best regards Bro

Pat

 

Thoughts?

Hay Pat I might have missed it but what did you think ot the book? Sorry if you already posted something

Jason

 

Well I finished reading the book in about 4 days, at break times, in the evenning, on the road and I can honestly say that this is the first ever well researched booked on the FMA that I have had the oppertunity to read.

A great peice of work in my opinion and it has laid the foundation for further reseached into the fighting arts of the Philippines.

Well written, well researched and not only do they place their findings into print, they give you those findings backed up with evidence. I would say it is the most realistic peice of work every done on this subject and many would be hard pressed too counter what they have to say without actually backing their argument up without the amount of research the authors have put into this fantastic referance manual, as far as I am concerend this is now become my number one referance manual when it comes to the history of what we know as Eskrima / Arnis.

Every argument backing the Mother Art theory has been systematically looked at, debated, and taken to peices and has opened a whole new can of worms asking how, when and why this theory has been allowed to go on for so long.

Well done I say, well done indeed and I would dearly love for them to expand even more on their first book on this subject by covering Eskrima / Arnis from other areas such as Bohol, Luzon etc.

If you are serious about your FMA and it's origins, I would say that this is a must in your library, whether you agree with their findings or not it is a serious peice of work that must be read.

Best regards

Pat

 

I said the natives or what we saying as descriminating indigenous people the Philippines today...now what this mean arnis this is taken to the Spanish word means tools or utensils. And what was the native tools in PI ,we might say the agricutural tools (bolos,knife and sticks) . Many of this school have only the wesrwern influenced influence like what brought to us... I never study with this commercial school I learn it directly to my lineage;I do not think my lineage would be from the Spanish ,only my surname was in Spanish origin but I am more dark person that what they called kALI or moro. Mabuhay Gat Kalislash
...note that the european swordmanship used the animals terms.

 

So your saying you never heard the term Kali being used in referance to the FMA by the older generation in the PI then?

Note: European swordsmen trained using the numbering system too...

Best regards Bro

Pat

 

Some did, not all. European sword styles are too numerous to generalise.
But you are right some of the famous Instructers certainly did.

The Bear.

 

Thank you, not disimiliar to FMA really, the teaching methods would all depend on which instructor you chose to train with.

Even in Doce Pares I have had the fortune to have trained with several Masters in DP and each one will teach you the same thing in a different way depending on their own personal expeariances.

Best regards

Pat

 

Hi Pat,
I am studying at the moment the manual of Johannes Lichtenhauer.
He wrote all his teachings in coded poems. You can imagine the hilarity of interpreting that.

The Bear.

 

Jeez I wish you the best of luck with that one mate, I had enough trouble understanding Ye Olde English text I was reading years ago.

Bet it's interesting though.

Best regards

Pat

 

I can teach also about the European swordmanship ,and telling that my teacher was from the books.I might fooling myself and also we numbered also our culinary ...like soup no. 5

 

So your saying you never heard the term Kali being used in referance to the FMA by the older generation in the PI then?

 

The term Kali refers to a man or his skills(KALAKI) so it is the natives warriors which exist before the Spanish came ...FMA does not exist at that they only do Martials way. Mabuhay the Kalagan warriors

 

So that's a no then


Best regards Bro

Pat