False dichotomy there! Just because I object to an off-topic straw man (with a side of ad hominem), doesn't mean I'm in favor of echo chambers or opposed to debate. Your original post was all about statistical relative risk and the choices we make in our personal lives because of that. I have no issue with the back and forth about that (whether my assertions about statistical relative risk of drinking and gun ownership were accurate). The post I objected to was different. And it had nothing to do with that. It boiled down to "I know your type, you Americans are all the same, you like your current gun laws and you don't care about kids lives." That's not productive debate. That's an off topic, inaccurate personal attack. I was disappointed to see the post and I was disappointed to see the thread author "like" the post. For the record, I support nationwide gun owner licensing in the model of shall-issue CHL laws; I support banning magazines with capacities over ten rounds; I support universal background checks and supported that law when we passed it in Oregon; I support red flag laws and supported them when we passed them in Oregon. I don't support Aus/NZ/UK style gun laws but I don't support the NRA extreme either. Of course, none of that has anything to do with THIS THREAD, but there it is.