Catch Wrestling for kids? A challenge!

Discussion in 'Wrestling' started by Combat Sports, Nov 23, 2014.

  1. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I have asked around and I understand that the vast majority of techniques that Catch Wrestlers learn are not safe for kids. However it would seem to me with the vast array of techniques available in any grappling art that there should be a way to make a list however small of the submissions from Catch Wrestling that are legal in Youth No-GI BJJ and make a game plan around them.

    This is an example of a set of youth BJJ rules for a local tournament.

    Illegal Techniques for ALL AGES & ALL DIVISIONS
    NO Striking of any kind
    NO Slamming
    NO Biting, Hair pulling or Eye-Gouging
    NO fingers to the throat
    NO Small Joint Manipulation (Fingers, Toes, etc)
    NO Pressure points
    NO Knees or Elbows in the face
    NO Stalling or running from the fight
    NO Swearing or obscene gestures

    Illegal Techniques for KIDS up to 15 years old
    Illegal Techniques for ALL AGES & ALL DIVISIONS will apply plus the following:
    NO Ezequiel Chokes
    NO Attacks below the waist (i.e. NO Foot Locks, Heel Hooks, Knee Bars, Toe holds)
    NO Guillotine Chokes
    NO Neck Cranks
    NO Cervical Locks (i.e. crucifix)
    NO Pulling the head while in the Guard (Can Opener)
    NO Triangle while pulling the Head
    NO Wrist Locks
    NO Calf Locks
    NO Scissors Takedown
    NO Biceps Locks
    NO Omoplata (Shoulder Lock)

    (The referee reserves the right to stop a choke if the neck or spine is compromised)

    So with this question, what do you think?
  2. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    no full nelson (although i guess its a cervical lock)
  3. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    So far on a couple of Catch forums I am part of, this is what has been suggested:

    RNC, Guillotine, Triangle, Arm Triangle, Double Wrist Lock, Paint Brush. V-arm lock with arms or legs, Straight Arm Lock with arms or legs.
  4. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    This likely wont help but I will offer my two cents worth here. We dont do pure Jujitsu or judo and the wrestleing we use is mostly for takedowns and takedown defense so I couldnt really say much about the joint manipulations.
    Zanshin Karate is a hybrid martial art so that said we strike alot, a whole lot actually. My suggestion is that wrestleing is awesome as a means of moveing and pummleing for position as well as staying on your feet believe it or not although judo has helped me with that somewhat it still isnt grea for the No gi aplication. When I said moveing I also mean moveing on the ground, we use it exclusively when we talk about traverseing on the ground.
    Now as I mentioned we strike alot a whle lot but that said we also use Jujitsu to choke people out, lets face it Jujitsu has a corner on the market. If you cant get the picture Im a stand up fighter but I will choke you if you give me the opertunity.
    Your situation is a little different cause your wanting to roll in a BJJ match with some kids, if anything try catch for the movement and pummleing drills, also for takedowns and takedown defense, and keep on keepin on with training Jujitsu for locks and chokes.
  5. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    why no ezekiel?
    and what about paper cutters etc?
  6. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    I assume they feel that the ezekiel threatens the larynx too much. Biceps cutters are banned because jitz people consider them dirty ;)
  7. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I honestly have no idea. I have found trying to understand youth BJJ rules is very frustrating. And from what my Sensei says, the rules can literally change right as you arrive at a tournament. Like sometimes arm bars are legal, and sometimes they are not, and sometimes they are legal but the referee stops the match before the child cranks the submission and declares it a submission before the other child taps.
  8. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works


  9. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    its strange! i guess the guillotine and ezekiel pressure the throat too much.

    IIRC in older tournaments, the RNC was one of the few barred holds in american catch wrestling and was considered a "dirty stranglehold" (at least according to an article posted by the snake pit).

    it's weird that you cant omoplata but you can pull DWL and v-lock.

    i would add hammerlocking to the list of legal techniques as well as omoplatas.
  10. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    are they wrestling for a pin and/or sub?
  11. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I don't have much of a problem with that though. There's a similiar rule at the grappling interclubs my gym hosts and my coach's reasoning is that its your fault you ended up in that position so don't moan that he didn't let you do some last ditch defence. I don't mind it there and that's with adults. Fine with it at kid comps.
  12. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I am not really complaining about any of the above solutions, what would be nice is some consistency. If my kids free wrestle and drill with arm bars and then they become muscle memory and then suddenly they are not legal, then it can cause them problems.
  13. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I haven't communicated with that organization yet, but from my understanding in Catch rules you can win by pin or submission.
  14. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

  15. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Martial arts Tournaments are like that, and yes it can be frustrating and unfair. One good thing about MMA is that each league has a set of rules it sticks with, random martial arts tournaments arnt like that though.
    When I was a kid we would go to tournaments and sometimes you could sweep or throw your opponet and some times you couldnt, how messed up is that.
  16. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I talked to a Catch Wrestler today and asked him what the fundamental differences were between the way Catch Wrestling is taught and the way BJJ is taught and he agreed with my assessment that while wrestlers can take BJJ, BJJ "feels" different. BJJ players "move" different. My daughter for example is adapting but as I watch her roll with BJJ and Judo kids she looks foreign to them.

    That's one of the reasons I was hoping that there could be a catch curriculum that was kid friendly, so that youth wrestlers can enter submission tournaments.
  17. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

  18. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Oh I just remembered that the freestyle judo org has an open ruleset with pins, subs and leg takedowns.

    Might be useful
  19. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    We are planning to try Freestyle Judo, there is a local tournament here in Michigan every year.

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