Capture smoke

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Please reality, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i personally find all this talk about "moving like smoke" or other (bad) metaphors as distracting. what does "move like smoke" or "capture smoke" mean anyway? sounds too mystical or unrealistic to mean anything applicable to the physical and mental aspects of studying martial arts or sports. you might as well say "build up your ki". both metaphors mean absolutely nothing, so what's the point of even attempting to train to "capture smoke".

    muhammad ali lost fights and was punched repeatedly. so did masahiko kimura and helio gracie (famously to kimura). at a high level nobody is invincible. dan carter occasionally gets tackled. lionel messi remarkably goes a few minutes at a time without scoring a goal. all we can do is train honestly and yes let go of our ego and work as hard as possible, both physically and mentally.
     
  2. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Nobody? How would you know? And yes, some can move like smoke on occasion, but again how would you know? You are missing the point of the thread and the question. It isn't one from ignorance.

     
  3. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    If you don't study ninjutsu, then it really doesn't matter. Nor would frost in the morning or gourds bobbing on the ocean or any other poetic metaphor for that matter. However, if you do study the arts that make up the Takamatsuden, it does have a lot to do with the higher levels of these arts. If you've never trained your ki, then telling you to build it would probably mean very little to you. However, for those who have mastered their own energy and can demonstrate such ability, it would sound like sage advice. Letting go of the ego means more than just the normal sense in which people use it. Without an ego, you are not there and thus harder to sense. Too mystical perhaps but how can you hit faster or less telegraphically? Best if you don't hit and it hits by itself. Same for passing the godan test. Try it if you'd like. Best to not try and just do. How can one avoid a strike from behind without seeing? Try looking, you would fail. Nothing mystical or mythical, just another level in training that some may someday reach so all the naysaying won't help them or you if you ever get there.

     
  4. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

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    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  5. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Let's keep it relevant and respectful folks. I recognize that ninjutsu isn't everyone's cup of tea. But nobody's required to post here. Good-natured joking is encouraged. Thread crapping is a different matter.
     
  6. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    more metaphors. lol! hey, if it makes you happy, then have at it. i personally like the gourds one.

    now that i think about it...."float like a butterfly, sting like a bee"....interesting...

    but i have to say, if you tell me that you can see from behind your head, then well, i call shenanigans. you might as well try to convince me jesus christ rose from the dead, which also ain't gonna happen. and if you think your "soke" can do it, then well, you're gullible.
     
  7. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Seeing behind you is impossible from what I believe. Avoiding an unseen strike from behind is quite possible. If you study ninjutsu, doing so as well as things like kemuri no gotoku(gotokushi?-basically the OP) are not too mystical. Guess it is up to those who study the art to find out, and those outside to say what they will.
     
  8. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    this is the great thing about martial arts. there's no one "way". i've found my own way. and seemingly "please reality" you've also found yours. if metaphors help to provide color to what you're doing, then like i mentioned, more power to you. and metaphors are great for any number of things. i would just be wary of claims being made without verification.

    cheers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  9. Kagete

    Kagete Banned Banned

    Depends on the person in question.

    Everyone isn't susceptible to the ideas being discussed in this thread. And, at the risk of repeating myself, even less so if he doesn't care if he lives or dies as long as he takes you with him.
     
  10. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    So willing to die makes one's body unsuceptible to gravity or the other laws of physics? Believing you can fly doesn't make it so. Just ask Icarus. This doesn't require compliance or necessarily work better due to it. Simply tested so feel free to try. Commitment often leads to blindness. If you think you will hit, you can miss the fact that you're missing by just enough. You can't hold on to nothingness. Catch smoke and it will slip through the cracks in between your fingers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  11. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    More than metaphors, these are the higher teachings of these arts. I guess you don't study ninjutsu or you would already be familiar with the Godan test. These aren't unverified claims, perhaps if you were more familiar with the Takamatsuden you could understand better.
     
  12. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    For people studying sport ma's maybe.

    But for people studying Takatsuden arts...soke talks about this stuff. Do you not believe him? Then why train? Or maybe you think you can take away little bits without the rest? Sounds...indie to me.
     
  13. Kagete

    Kagete Banned Banned

    I'm more referring to the highly theoretical nature of your and whomever else's ability to make use of the aforementioned laws of physics in the manner that's implied.

    Tell me about it. In some martial arts, you can even practice for 10+ years and still be oblivious to the fact that you can't turn a disarmed attacker's blade against him without repercussions.
     
  14. Kagete

    Kagete Banned Banned

    We all do. Otherwise we would be going into fights with week-old feces underneath our fingernails to cause infections when using shako ken. And countless other far crazier things.
     
  15. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    You mean legal? Depends on the country. Nothing theoretical here. Speaking from experience. Though you may doubt it, have you tried to attack any of the people who are able to do this? To what result? A doubting Thomas who has never gone outside might feel content to disbelieve in rain, but the prudent carry umbrellas.
     
  16. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    An odd response. But each to their own.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  17. Kagete

    Kagete Banned Banned

    I doubt you've shanked anyone. And I don't think I'm alone in that regard.

    Like I've said before, I saw this idiot from South America try to take Oguri's head off years ago. It was cool.
     
  18. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Perhaps you would prefer Tabasco sauce? You miss the concept for the story. It is to use whatever you have at hand to win. Soke was once asked what he'd do if his arm was cut off? He said he'd use the blood as metsubushi in the other guy's eyes. This is farfetched to you but you believe that a good Filipino stylist will never get disarmed?:dunno: Ever seen the tv show Fight Quest?
     
  19. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Whoa, where did that come from? Can we get back to reality(not dreams of Oz). Before you get off on a tangent about shanking people for stealing cigarettes, can we keep things on topic?

    I think we were discussing how to capture smoke. So, if you don't believe people can move like that in this art, why study it(if you still do)? Why bring up Oguri sensei unless you are saying he got knocked silly?
     
  20. Kagete

    Kagete Banned Banned

    I'm not missing anything. I'm pointing out the ludicrousness of taking everything he says literally...which, oddly, it seems that you just did in regards to my post.

    Good luck disarming someone with twelve blades and at least three people to back him up.
     

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