Gapjumper posted If there a problem with quality in the Bujinkan of course it lies with him. I'll ask you a question. Imagine you take your car into a garage to get fixed and the garage does a bad job, so you ask to see the owner of the company. Is the owner saying "the problem doesn't lay with me as its down to the quality of my mechanics" good enough for you? Now I know that a very simple analogy, but the only one that could have stopped the bad quality problem was Hatsumi, and trying to divert that blame away from him is just a cop out. In regard to the title of this thread about capturing smoke, i'd say that the only way the Bujinkan seems like smoke is that we have a very good idea of what is good quality and bad quality when it comes to judging people, but when one makes judgements on the actual organisation the bench marks change or a smoke screen is errected to try to move any attention away from the point made in regard to the organisation.