Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by Simon, Nov 17, 2013.
Well, there's ginga, au, and...
And that's it. :cry:
Rasteira and cabecada are pretty universal as well.
Oh, and great idea for a thread, Simon.
Of course then there's the whole "banda" thing... :whistle:
^^^True. And that's a term I've never heard in angola circles. Cocorinha?
Edit: Oh, and bananeira.
True and true.
We better stop here, this way lies madness.
Back on topic: Simon, in capoeira there are a number of counters for that movement that include low rasteiras (sweeps), coming in under the attack and giving cabecada (a headbutt) or even using one's arms, hands or hips to unbalance the person mid-kick. There are many others, but those are some of the common ones.
Edit: adding video examples for clarification. In the video below, at the 46-48 second marks, you see the one player taken down. When he tries to get up while giving a rabo de arraia/meia lua de compasso, he is quickly swept again.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPd-miqM-Gw"]Capoeira - melhores rodas e chutes insanos! - YouTube[/ame]
In this video, you see a cabecada given while evading the kick at the 13 second mark. Now, when I've received cabecada, the timing has been such as to catch me mid kick, rather than just afterward as in this video. Mid kick is the timing I usually shoot for as well.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhj_OOV1RU8"]CabeÃ§ada na capoeira - Cogumelo venenoso - YouTube[/ame]
You mean like trying to define malicia and mandinga?
Oh dear God, please don't even go there...
I've edited post #26 above to add some video examples.
This may be the wrong thread to ask this question, but I notice that there are times the seem to purposely throw a kick that will not strike the opponent. When are techniques allowed to be used to disrupt/strike the opponent? Is there a preset criteria of some sort?
We have spining kicks in CLF, but none (that I am aware of anyways) that have you put your hand down.
I am curious, what is to be gained by putting one's hand down in such a kick? Any disadvantages?
We want to look like zebras fighting!
Probably cultural reasons more than anything. Capoeira has roots to African tribal dances that mimic zebras and other dances that copy other animals. The kick kind of looks like a zebra kicking.
I'm no expert though. There's a few videos on youtube of the tribal dance and comparisons of capoeira and the dance. I'll try and dig them out later.
Well, I can only speak for my experience in capoeira angola and not capoeira regional/contemporanea (as I don't train those styles), but in angola you try not to throw many kicks that don't intend to hit an opponent. Even in non contact contexts, you throw as though to hit and stop short if the person hasn't evaded. You rarely ever throw out of distance attacks. The only possible reason to do that in angola is to test someone's response or to use the attack itself as a traveling movement to take you within range for your actual attack. Personally, I don't like to do this and tend feint attacks that are actually in range or use footwork or drawing attacks to get me inside.
You wouldn't believe how many times, though, that I've had to correct new people or even visiting capoeiristas from other grupos about aiming the attack when practicing partner drills or even during rodinhas (training rodas). People throw from out of range, shorten their attacks or angle up in order to pass over the target.
There is roda etiquette and in many rodas the game is played with little to fairly light contact, though as you can see in the videos already posted, there are sweeps headbutts and kicks that do connect at times, even in those rodas. What is most valued is how smoothly one has caught the other person while confounding that person's attempts at getting retribution. The roda's etiquette is set by the tradition of the style, the mestre running the roda and, to some extent, by the players themselves. At a typical laid back roda, it isn't unusual to see an occasional heated, aggressive game between two friends challenging each other or even between rivals. So, things can change even within the general rules.
If you look at the work of T.J. Desch Obi, the putting the hands on the ground come out of the spiritual traditions connected with capoeira's antecedant African art. Putting the hands on the ground and inverting the body were meant to draw on ancestral power (it has a lot to do with the kalunga and the Congo/Angolan cosmology regarding using spiritual power). These physical movements had a certain spiritual symbolism attached to them. Moreover, low, evasive maneuvers were part and parcel of the fighting traditions in the West Central African region where capoeira finds its origins.
Putting one's hand (or hands) down for that kick has the advantage (at least for capoeiristas accustomed to it) of allowing for the possibility of inverted modes of attacking or traveling through the ring/roda/glass strewn back alley. For instance, in the video above where I pointed out that the one guy doing the kick gets swept by the other, the guy who got swept could have avoided it with an escape via au (cartwheel) which could have also served as a means of counterattacker to the guy attempting the sweep. The hand down also acts as a stabilizer when you're really whipping that kick out there (and some capoeiristas can nearly rip a hole in the space/time continuum with that kick). The faster you go, often the more unstable you are and the hand helps.
As for disadvantages, you are in a somewhat precarious state of balance and it can often be fairly easy to unbalance a person doing this movement (if your timing is right--and it had better be right). You also temporarily, though very briefly, take your hands off the table as offensive tools. Some do the kick with such momentum that it automatically pops their head back up (often unguarded) at the end of the movement (but this is poor/lazy training or bad habits in my opinion). I'm sure there are others, but these are just the things off the top of my head at this late hour.
Excerpts of one of T.J.'s articles on the subject can be found here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/140118331/Combat-and-the-Crossing-of-the-Kalunga
Am I totally off the mark about copying zebra in the N'golo (Zebra dance) or is it another reason/part of the reason?
The zebra issue gets tied in because the word n'golo itself means zebra. It also means other things, including to bend or bend down which may also relate to n'golo's particular affinity for low and inverted movements. So, zebra dance is a part of it, from my understanding, but there are (apparently) linkages to cosmology and its impact on the rules for ritualized fighting.
It's pretty hard to find (reliable) info about the history of capoeira on the net. And what I do find seems to be the same info cut 'n' pasted from the same sites and sources.
I need to read more about the roots of capoeira as it's interesting stuff...but I've been saying that for a while now!
No worries--even my own group's website has some cut and paste info up right now. I hope to get something better up over the holiday break.
Back on topic: I think I've posted this on MAP before, Simon, but here is an example of the kick connecting in a capoeira context...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQI0ix-o1uw"]jogo malandro - YouTube[/ame]
Though they still try to keep it within the context of a game, you'll note that things get choppier/rougher/more aggressive afterwards.
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