Capoeira comes from Silat?

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Jefferson Pierce, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. Jefferson Pierce

    Jefferson Pierce New Member

    There is an old art called diamanga in Madagascar (apparently there are old engravings that represent it, but I do not know the dates), this style has fallen into disuse and today it goes through a resurrection.
    The diamanga seems to have much similarity with the silat and would descend from it, slaves from Madagascar were imported into Brazil in the 17th century and brought the diamanga where it was mixed with traditions of the African continent, such as n'golo and bassula, ritualistic tribes many different.
    The history of the Malagasy in Brazil is obscure, since they were few among many people coming from the African continent.
    Today we notice some similarities between capoeira and silat, this theory would explain this.
    I am a layperson and have discovered these things on the internet and would like people with understanding to help me understand silat and diamanga.
     
  2. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Madagascar is a long way from the pacific rim. I can understand coastal trade links around the Indian ocean. but Madagascar is almost opposite Indonesia. where there any direct trade links? I am just wondering how silat got to Madagascar in the first place. Just out of practicality I Would expect Madagascan arts to be related to Indian or Persian, Mogle, southern European, and African arts rather than silat.
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award



    From the look of the demos on youtube someone with a bit of kali tkd and cap experience has remade the art, I wouldnt look into their practise and proving any link though.
     
  4. Jefferson Pierce

    Jefferson Pierce New Member

    It is a great distance but not insurmountable the first people in Madagascar were Austronesians (people from regions like Malaysia and Indonesia, Africans came later) the dominant people in Madagascar, the Merina, have greater ties with Austronesians than with Africans.
    Diamanga also uses weapons, but I mean his unarmed modality.
     
  5. Jefferson Pierce

    Jefferson Pierce New Member

    This is where I found this theory:
    Google Tradutor
    [​IMG]
    Image of diamanga published in a newspaper in Madagascar in 1936
    They use the term "ringa malgaxe" and encompass the moraingy in the equation, motraingy is a kind of kickboxing of another people of Madagascar, but I do not consider moraingy to be related to capoeira. Do not confuse with Reunion's morringue (although moraingy is its base), morringue was influenced by capoeira in the 1980s
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  6. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Thankyou i have learned something new. was Madagascar an active part of one of the south east Asian kingdoms or was it more like Greenland for the vikings, settled once, and more or less isolated because of the large distances ?
     
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I am all for cultural preservation and arts, but this is almost certainly not what was practiced originally, and I see no resemblance beyond a superficial level to capoeira. From the first video "Diamanga hadn't been practiced for over 50yrs until we revived it" - and that shows in the techniques, which as Deadpool correctly pointed out are clearly blended TKD and low level kali (the stick work wasn't very good at all)
     
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  8. Jefferson Pierce

    Jefferson Pierce New Member

    "Indonesia–Madagascar relations spans for over a millennium"
    Indonesia–Madagascar relations - Wikipedia
     
  9. Jefferson Pierce

    Jefferson Pierce New Member

    Really requires more detailed investigation, to know if it is not something like Moringue de Reunion (which was influenced by capoeira in the 80s), but there are drawings (at least one) that show in the old practice of diamanga (1936) a movement Seen in capoeira and silat, remembering that capoeira would receive from n'golo and other African cultures in its formation.
    In the second video we see movements typical of capoeira.
     
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    There's a TKD club in Paris that also teaches diamanga, maybe an email to them asking how it was reconstructed would be a good idea!
     
  11. Jefferson Pierce

    Jefferson Pierce New Member

    Do you have a website or at least the name of that club?
     
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I've seen 19th century photos of capoeira that looked like wing chun. I've seen ancient Greek sculpture that looks like karate technique (against centaurs, no less!).

    Humans only move in so many ways. I don't think can you read too much in to a few pictures.
     
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  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Taekwondo BlackSong

    its the first link on Google!

     
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  14. Jefferson Pierce

    Jefferson Pierce New Member

    "A picture is worth a thousand words"
    And this movement is typical of capoeira and some Asian arts like silat and muay boran, but of course that of finding more ancient material, preferably a video, with a 1938 on the ladja of Martinique (a capoeira sister)
     
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Is it showing a roundhouse or a wheel kick, would you say?
     
  16. Jefferson Pierce

    Jefferson Pierce New Member

    [​IMG]
    I see a "rabo de arraia" (stingray tail) running
     
  17. Jefferson Pierce

    Jefferson Pierce New Member

  18. Jefferson Pierce

    Jefferson Pierce New Member

    ...Complementing with silat
     
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    The fundamental problem is there are "moves" that look like it but they are "flashes" - that speaks to "bolt on" rather than influence....same with the stickwork - it was bad heaven 6, which is the bolt on part of kali everyone adds because it looks flash and they can pick it up from seminars
     
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  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    The photo and video above show a different kick to the picture, which shows the same kick as your last post.
     

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