Building cardio fast

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Zerodauto, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Are you telling me you've never been at the the pads hard enough in 3 minutes time to be blowing out your rear end? That's an issue in your training right there you should rectify. Yes pads are for technique, power and speed training - but a cardio exercise they most definately are. Doing 10 rounds on the pads properly is equivelant of doing sprints for that length of time. I wouldn't necessarily call hard padwork HIIT but it's definately high intensity.

    Next time you have shin splints and can't run - go for a swim instead. Nothing beats running, but swimming will work your core all the time you focus on breathing. And if you're doing swim sprints then you can work your cardio pretty well whilst your shin splints actually heal. I remember hearing from a physio that swimming is really good for things like this because the pressure of the water also helps to reduce minor swelling.
     
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    There isn't going to be any reduction of swelling just by being in the water. Not sure what physio came up with that but I'd really doubt there's any benefit from the water pressure against any swelling.

    Also if anyone's going to swim to benefit their Muay Thai training... get a swim coach and learn proper technique... once you have that technique you can then swim sprint drills... anything less is a total waste of time with very little carry over to Muay Thai.
     
  3. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    I suppose I sometimes take it for granted that everyone can swim at an ok level.
     
  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Hah...where are you swimming? The mariana trench?
    You'd have to swim pretty deep to get any kind of pressure from the water to effect swelling IMHO.

    That's not a problem that's replicating a fight with rounds! It's an advantage.
    Do pads hard enough and you will be basically replicating your fight cardio needs almost exactly.
    As Betty says it's not the only or exclusive way you build cardio (most Thai's do a long run in the morning for example) but pads can build cardio (and the right kind of cardio too).
    Get a good pad man with shinnies, belly pad and some Thai pads, allow him to attack ,call combo's and he'll have you puffing in no time.
     
  5. tonyv107

    tonyv107 Valued Member

    It's not that difficult to learn proper technique. Especially If you are swimming free style. Getting the right form is a little tougher or butterfly and even breast stroke( working the legs correctly was my biggest issue with this one. I doubt you need a coach to show you swim form, you could probably just ask
    Another swimmer in the pool for some pointers. I can't believe I never thought of swimming for my fight cardio. 3 minute intervals with a one minute rest would be perfect swimming definitely helps to improve your breathing.

    A little pointer. If doin freestyle this us what you want your breathing to look like. Inhale completely, right, left ,right, breath, left, right, left, breath, etc. As you are swimming between breaths you should be blowing air out of your nose so that when you come up for air your lungs and completely empty.
     
  6. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Yeah I swam competetively all through my childhood etc. so I tend to forget that there are some people who can barely doggy paddle. I wouldn't replace running with swimming but if you definately can't run then suggest replacing with swimming. It's definately much easier on the old knees since most people who run tend to thump the heel down first.
     
  7. RatchadaNinja

    RatchadaNinja Valued Member

    There's no where to swim around here. I doubt there's a public swimming pool around for at least 250km. My routine is working out just fine, anyway.

    I still can't figure why you're suggesting pad work when Muay Thai stresses running and skipping to extremes for it's cardio.

    I can exhaust myself out in 30 seconds if I try, no problems with my pad work. I think the point is, if I can exhaust myself in 30 seconds, how can I blame my lungs for that? They never had a chance to start working...

    I don't even know why I'm saying this. I think you're a bit of a no hoper. But for the sake of the OP - there's a difference in short bursts of high intensity and drawn out exercises that take a sustained effort. You're best training both, but I'd recommend longer exercises for developing the lungs - by having the lungs work hard for long periods of time, you're really forcing them to improve in their oxygen efficiency. On the other hand, high intensity bursts stress the lungs less, high intensity is more about teaching your blood and muscles to be more efficient with the oxygen they use, so they don't use all the oxygen up too quickly and you can keep that sprint going a little longer. But this will only improve your lungs very slowly. In the end, as usual, it is a combination of both things that will make the best fighter - like I said, do a long 20 minute run without stopping and at your best pace possible, this will make sure your lungs are working hard and learning to improve their efficiency in drawn out exercises, every now and then do a 75m sprint at full burst - this will make sure your muscles are using the oxygen in your blood at their maximized minimum, it will teach your muscles to use oxygen better and to not over heat - exhaustion sets in rapidly when the muscles become too hot, which is the "on your ass" that Betty is talking about, and it has nothing to do with your lungs, it is just muscle overheating.

    If you only do rounds on the pads for cardio, you're going to struggle when you come to long and sustained exercises because your lungs will be underdeveloped. You may be very good at powerful and explosive bursts, but this is all in muscle efficiency and does not stem directly from the lung intake.

    Contrary to what Master Betty is saying, the effective style of Muay Thai tells people to do large amounts of sustained exercises for cardio, such as 10km runs daily followed by 20 minutes of skipping rope. The pads and bag work is for reasons of power and conditioning, technique.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  8. RatchadaNinja

    RatchadaNinja Valued Member

    I don't really agree. I don't think many fighters do, either. The fight is long enough to keep you breathing the whole time and stress the importance of lung development. You need the high intensity work too, because you'll be doing powerful bursts in the fight and you need to teach your muscles to use the oxygen in your blood efficiently, but the fight is not so short as to rule out the importance of training the lungs to efficiently restock the blood with oxygen for the muscles to use in more powerful bursts. Lung efficiency is trained through drawn out exercises, not pad work.

    If you train your lungs properly through good cardio work such as what I've sugested, you'll notice a rise in the frequency of your power bursts, given you'll be pumping more oxygen into your blood - you'll recover from the exhaustion of one power burst much better if you've trained your lungs, and this is how Thai fighters have learned to throw one extreme combo after another for the duration of the entire fight. It is a dual act of the lungs and muscles that were trained seperately, but are brought to function together in the ring with devestating effect.,
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  9. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Man this is probably exactly why you gassed! You have absoutely no idea what different kinds of stamina you need do you? I said right off the bat that you should do both - but the cardio from padwork is THE most closesly resembling what your body will go through in the fight. Long slow runs work a completely DIFFERENT kind of stamina. Hell, you say you live and fight in thailand - where the HELL did somebody tell you that crap!? That long slow runs and skipping are all the cardio you need!?

    I know many thais and many of the best british fighters - ironically, fitness isn't something they have a problem with. All of them will tell you if you aren't using padwork as a large part of your cardio then youre doomed to failure.
     
  10. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    why is it so hard for people to understand the above point, developing the aerobic base (the capacity of the aerobic system) is of vital importance, but so is developiong the power of the aerobic system and this is probably done best through specific exercises (which also help with specific muscular endurance)for fighting this means pad and bag work, sparring etc (if people dont think 3 minute rounds on the pads or bags are cardio specific stick a heart rate monitor on and see what your average HR is)

    in thailand they probably emphasis road work and skipping for cardio because daily pad and bag work is a given, just as in the US in wrestling they emphasis stair running, bike work etc for cardio because sports specific cardio (through daily wrestling)is also a given
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    My lord Do you even know what anaerobic means? It means without oxygen.

    There are two anaerobic energy systems, alactic which can provide power for up to 10 seconds and lactic which can provide power up to 90 seconds or so…… so are you really saying you have found a way to exercises for 20 minutes straight without using oxygen as your main energy system…….if so explain how you have managed to do what science tells us is basically impossible
     
  12. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    They don't even emphasise running and skipping. The usual 10km type run they do before training is barely even a jog - the purpose of both this and the skipping is mainly to burn off excess calories - not work their stamina. When they want to run to build stamina they do sprints. And the whole time, as you say, they do heavy bag and heavy padwork. You hit the nail right on the head.

    I'm beginning to see why this guy said he gassed in his fight.
     
  13. Andy8100

    Andy8100 New Member

    Swimming creates your muscle tissue less than other Cardio, because water limits how much you can move your muscles, but it does give you a probability to exercise your human body, such as your hands, back and feet. This allows you to merge the muscle stamina exercise of bodybuilding with your cardiovascular exercise.
     
  14. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    try again dude.
     
  15. zombiekicker

    zombiekicker bagpuss

    what if the hills only 500 metres, i gotta run back down it:p
     
  16. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    run/bike/swim long (1-2hrs).
     
  17. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    As a guy who would fall nicely in the heavyweight category with severe shin splints, I might try something like this. I'd probably not do jumping knees but maybe replace it with a karate based exercise as is my preference (probably moving shiko dachi) and swimming/light weight training isn't proving enough for me.
     
  18. PlumPunch

    PlumPunch New Member

    You should be training all 3 energy systems. The base of all of this is long, slow distance cardio. Try to get up to 3 to 5 miles of running at least 4 days a week, preferably more. That takes care of the aerobic system.

    Then work in fartleks, rope skipping, bagwork, etc for glycolisis and hill sprints for the phosphagen system and your cardio will be solid.
     
  19. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    You could try hill repeats


    With a breathing mask
     
  20. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    This old thread - makes me miss Master Beatty ... what a character, that.
     

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