Bruce Lee v. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

Brice Lee circa 2008

 

Yes, but one needs to consider Floyds defensive skills....

I'm no denying that he was very good at what he did, and perhaps at an amateur level he was a very good fighter. But he never had the experience necessary to say that he was a great 'fighter'. He did very good demo's, and was very impressive with regards to his speed, I'll admit that. But demo's and fighting are two very different things.

Arnoo, you know nothing about me or my experience with JKD. I was up until a few months ago a working JKD instructor, and have been training in the art for over 12 years. I think i am entitled to an opinion. Now to say that because i do not ride on the balls of Bruce Lee i am a hater is not a fair conclusion. Nor is assuming that bruce could fight because he was phsyically extraordinary.

Emily

 

Ok I see how this goes...anyone forwarding an opinion not agreeable to your own must be an idiot. I'm sure that Yohan has read the Tao and has seen every movie, documentary and video clip out there. I'm also sure that he has had actual conversations with Bruce's actual students and discussed just such things as his striking speed, power and actual fighting experience (so I suppose we are equal on our knowledge because I personally have done most of these things). i'm also sure he's watched all of the interviews of those same people who knew Bruce at the time. I would be willing to assume that everyone else who won't even consider the possibility to be the same sort of expert. I was forwarding my opinion based on my knowledge of what could have been. Since it's obvious that this was a bad idea to try to have an intellectual conversation that gives consideration to other points of view on a subject that cannot be definitely proved, I apologize for trying to participate in what was obviously a conversation for people who are more knowledgeable and well rounded than myself. I humbly ask forgiveness from the master experts who's experience spans a whole 6 years (possibly) and who has gained great insight into the ways of the martial art and the ability to logically link certain things together so that his judgement is so much greater than someone who...say has been training in the martial arts for something like 25 years, has trained in a JKD based system for 12 years now, has studied under Bruce's 1st head instructor (Bruce's words), has studied MMA, both grappling and the standup side, at one of the premier gyms in the world and has as his training classmates some of the ranking blackbelts under some of the highest ranking members of a number of different systems. I apologize for my amateurish opinion in supposing that a person trained to fight in a ring under certain rules could possibly not emerge the victor against a person who had trained most of his life to defend himself in a streetfighting situation.... IN a streetfighting situation. I know I have given no proff or anything else and my experiences aren't the type that I can speak with any sort of authority....my bad.

 

Empress....that's the kind of argument I like...no name calling nor anything else, just good facts, honest opinions forwarded in a respectful way. Thank you and you're correct. I wouldn't be indignant and shout you down for that opinion. Well put and as good an opinion as anyone else's since we can't say for sure either way since Da man isn't above ground.

 

I just want to make sure I understand a couple of things. First you ask if he's been reading the thread. Is it your opinion then that, because the thread says FM is the best puncher in the world, then it must be true?

Second, what about FM's training as a professional boxer leads you to conclude that he would target soft tissue? I've watched a number of boxing matches. The man that created the system I am in, who also trained under one of BL's original students by the way, is a boxer as is one of the black belts in the system. In fact the black belt trained professional boxers. In speaking with them I don't recall any stories about boxers, with thick, heavy boxing gloves on, targeting soft tissue such as the throat. While I suspect it could be done, I don't think those kinds of intentional strikes are legal in American boxing. I could be wrong though. Typically those kinds of strikes are for incapacitating your opponent, and I don't think that's the idea of boxing.

You keep demanding proof of others, while it seems your own arguments are based on nothing more than your own opinion, or opinions of others. When was FM declared the "best puncher in the world", and by which standard was he judged? Who did the judging? Who were his competitors in this contest? Your conlcusion that comparing BL and FM is like comparing oranges to oranges is also strictly your own opinion. You offer nothing in the way of the jsutification you ask of others for your argument. Simply a flat "You're wrong." Like it or not, Prophet is right. Comparing BL and FM is comparing apples and oranges. There seems to be a lot about JKD that you don't know, or for that matter Jun Fan. I see a couple of folks riding others because they defend BL. I personally don't believe anybody needs to defend BL. What the man did speaks for itself. Why are you so steadfast in your defense of FM though? Is it because there are those that disagree with you?

 

I was curuious to see what various world class MMA fighters and Boxers had to say on Lee so I googled their names along with Bruce Lee's. I was surprised by how many of them consder Lee to have been something else. Any chance they might know what they are talking about. To much to post them, waste of time anyway, right? Alright, here's one - anyone who cares, can "google it!"

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/ufc/article1109703.ece

Were you were influenced by the late, great Bruce Lee?

Tito Ortiz: Yes, as a young kid watching kung-fu movies like ‘Fist of Fury’, Bruce Lee was the first guy to know what mixed martial arts was about.
He would go with a wrestler, he would go with a karate guy, he would go with a jiu jitsu guy. He was one of the first guys to know what mixed martial arts was all about.

I’ve read some of his books and watched a lot of the stuff on him, it’s too bad him passing away as quickly as he did. He’s somebody I’ve looked up to as an athlete and as a mixed martial artist hopefully I can follow in his footsteps one day people knowing that I’m a full blown martial artist myself.


http://www.dse-outdoors.com/recreation-and-sports/news_interview-with-tito-ortiz.html

MMAToday: Are there any fighters you look up to now?

TO: Not anyone now currently, but I look at people who put it all together like Ali, Bruce Lee 30 years ago. GSP and BJ are great fighters. I can’t respect anyone in my weight class anymore because I get caught up in watching them and being in awe instead of stomping on them, which is what I need to be do doing.

Okay, okay, this one's rich - turns out PFM's dad has had BL on his mind a lot!

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/May-05-Fri-2006/sports/7226400.html

 

Man what a Bruce Lee Nutrider fest.

Seriously... people... give it up.

You have tons of anecdotes that Bruce Lee was a great fighter... but you have no objective proof (for those of you that actually what objective means). So at that point it all really become conjecture on your part.

As for Floyd Mayweather Jr.... he's not doing demos... he's not waxing poetic on martial theory... he's got fights on record that you or anyone can watch. It's not some exclusive club where one has to read deep in some obscure book on Bruce Lee or trained in his system for a number of years or have trained with his actual training partners to know about or have watched. They're on tape, on YouTube, all over the web. His fight record is a matter of public record. Simple as that.

Bruce may have been in your opinions a dedicated martial artists who brought change to one of the traditional systems of Kung Fu... and he may have been a martial arts movie actor (beyond his scowl he couldn't act his way out of a paper bag) that became a pop culture icon... he may have been a charismatic individual that inspired many people for many different reasons... but you lot would do well to be able to discern the the perception of Bruce Lee VS the reality.

So when you take someone who's fought pretty much the best of his generation in his weightclass and spent just as much if not more time that Bruce Lee did training... and trained consistently with harder contact on a much more regular basis than Bruce Lee did... your arguments to convince us that Bruce is a greater fighter who would have prevailed in a bout against FMjr... are seriously weak.

Your arguing mythology vs. fact. Always a slippery slope to go down.

 

I nominate this for the greatest nutride on MAP of 2008.

This is even worse than my own Wong Shun Leung hero worship.

Seriously I think that in general Bruce Lee has been hyped up so much that no matter how good he actually was, he'd never live up to our expectations.

I'll always think of Bruce Lee is just a human being, if the nutriders actually go some homework they'll discover a few physical weakness that Bruce had, as well as being beaten by two other martial artists I can think of off the top of my head during his prime.

 

ROTFLMAO!!!

Niiiice... you only missed one:

Time to go get another cup of coffee because I just spilt half of mine laughing my ass of at that!!!

 

Ok I'll give you that... he MAY have been....and in MY opinion. That's all I'm trying to do is discuss the topic of this thread based on what I know and my opinons as such. Of course this is all conjecture.... the only way we could argue it realistically is if you put the two in the ring, the cage or back alley and watched them duke it out. Even then we would be doing "what if's" and "if only's" regardless of who won with the winning side doing a lot of "I told you so" my only real point is that a person mentions BL and the new generation go " Oh man here's that bogus crap again" and the older guys go..." oh yeah he's the man" I personally think he did a LOt for martial arts as a whole and helped move it forward into the mainstream and is probably partially responsible for things like UFC being so popular today. I am going to start a new thread as soon as I can think of a good boxer of the right weight class. So when you all see the " What do you think of Dan Inosanto Vs......" know that is me. Dan is basically what Bruce would ahve been had he continued on. Anyone interested?

 

*chokes on sandwich*

If that's the case then Bruce would have definitely lost to Mayweather.

 

Ok obviously I was too general in my statement....what I MEANT was that Dan has taken JKD to it's next logical step and continued to progress the system so that it has evolved with the time, incorporating many other systems as well as the MMA systems and approaches, including western boxing, Thai boxing, and Brazilian Jujitsu. In no way was that statement meant to infer equality or similarity to their physical capabilities.... I submit. It seems any serious consideration is lost.

 

Ok, a physical comparison is not what I meant either. But I better stop now before I get internet gang raped by JKD international. I'll just stop by saying that it is only assumed that what Dan Inosanto's current thought process is what Bruce's thought process would have been.

 

Rick, can I ask a question? Do you think that the head instructor of your school, if attacked by Floyd Mayweather on the street would have a chance of protecting himself adequately to survive the encounter? I'm not making fun and not about to cast aspersions, I'm just curious of what you think of the abilities of the highest levels of your chosen system of study?
As for the Dan thing...that's what I meant. I see by your posts you understood what I meant and apparently don't think much of the man. Fair enough, everyone is entitle to their opinion and I will respect yours.

 

Actually I really do like Dan as a person, if you go look back through some of my older posts I say that. The guy is a living encyclopedia of Martial Arts, and a truly nice and giving guy. However he has unintentionally misinterpreted Bruce's combat philosophy (yep, he's actually in some sense a victim); I find some of Bruce's other students' students just plain scary. Not so much Dan's.

 

ok so we all agree that he had:

1. one of the most exceptional's physic's trained toward MA
2. Had tons and tons of knowledge
3. even used that knowledge to make a more effecient MA
4. had nearly perfect technique

5. he must have been an average fighter ?

ok somehow this dousnt add up to me i dont know if he could beat mayweather but saying that he was an "average" fighter is just bs

 

If BL was average that makes us all worms.

 

You quite clearly dont compete, do you?

Ive seen tons of people with superb technique, good bodys etc etc but then get taken apart in a fight.

BL said himself to learn to fight you need to fight. He never fought, it still doesnt mean he was wrong. But the fact of the matter is he didnt fight. FM has taken apart every single person put in front of him.

I agree he changed the way MA was viewed but in all honesty, BJJ has probably done as much, if not more for MA as BL.

 

i believe someone with a very good physic and awesome technique dousnt suck in a fight but thats just me then

 

I'm going to consider myself one of those "nutriders" and respond to that. I'll see if I can do so a little more tactfully than you seem to be able to.

I'll start off by asking exactly how much you know of Jeet Kune Do. I don't mean Jun Fan JKD, I mean Jeet Kune Do as Bruce was working on it and developing it. How much of it have you studied? Who have you studied under? I suppose what I'm really trying to get at here is, what qualifies you to speak on JKD and Bruce's abilities. You talk of conjecture and all that, so certainly you have enough in your arsenal to say, without a doubt, you have studied JKD, you understand JKD, and you are more qualified than many of us, who are actual students of JKD or JKD based systems, to speak on what Bruce was and what he was not. Believe me when I tell you THE man did far more than bring "change to one of the traditional systems of kung fu." That statement alone does more to discredit your own arguments than anything I or any other "nutrider" could do. JKD is much, much, MUCH more than just changing wing chun. Heck, Jun Fan was more than that. Sometimes I think people confuse Jun Fan and JKD.

As for your statement about this lot discerning the difference in Bruce the perception and Bruce the reality, I'm fully prepared to listen to you explain the two. Keep in mind though that you will be required to offer the same convincing evidence that you demand of the rest of us. No conjecture now, as it's clear you don't believe in it. By the way, FMJ's bouts being on video and YouTube are NOT evidence that he could beat BL in a street fight. They're strictly evidence that he beat whoever he was fighting at the time.

Finally, I'm not attempting to convince you of anything. You're clearly a FMJ fan. I say "Outstanding". FMJ is without a doubt one of the greatest fighters to ever step into the ring. There is no argument that he is the best there is at what he does. I am a FMJ fan as well. The fact of the matter is though that your opinion that he would beat BL in a street fight is no more convincing than mine to the contrary. They are opinions. I'm pretty sure that's what this thread was started as. A question as to our opinions regarding this match up. I don't need your permission to disagree with you. It's simply my right to do so. The truth is, in all honesty, all our opinions are nothing more than conjecture. Only one way to prove who the best would be, and that can't happen because one is dead. Unless you can show me a video of FMJ beating BL, then there is no convincing evidence one way or the other. Let people have their opinions without trouncing them and attempting to make them feel foolish. You can talk down to me all day long and I won't change my mind. Let us discuss this in the atmosphere in which it was meant to be discussed. Light hearted and fun. It's not as if the fate of the world rides on this.