British Judo Culture

Discussion in 'Judo' started by Pretty In Pink, Oct 23, 2018.

  1. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    It's hard to describe but there is a certain weird culture in British Judo. Almost every Judoka has a similar view when it comes to martial arts. BJJ is just not as good as Judo for instance. Many have no interest in cross training.

    So many of them expect the BJA or IJF to be decent at their jobs. They expect loads of weird criteria. They are bureaucratic to a fault. Everyone's primary focus is on competition. Everyone moans about how judo isn't popular with kids and doesn't get funding etc. And Oh MY GOD Ude-garami is a shoulder lock, it always has been, always will be. If you straighten it out it to attack the elbow it is no longer Ude-garami! And nobody bothers to clear it up.

    It's just.... Weird. From the outside I will never understand why they are so bull-headed and have such single track minds when it comes to martial arts.

    The club I'm at now is a lot more lax than other places but there is still a faint sense of the culture.

    Does anyone else have similar experiences?
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Yep, your spot on.

    Theres almost no interest in any other art, and yet there's not much real interest in the judo from any other culture, even Japanese either.

    It's like a carry over from the 1970's.
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah, a lot of them don't seem interested in say, Sambo for instance. Which is really just old school judo.
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  4. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    The judo school I trained at was not quite as much like that, the chief instructor would regularly talk about training in boxing, fencing and other sport also.
    The rest of the high level instructors would not entertain the idea of cross training; once I started at the adult class it seemed more obvious.

    There seemed a big focus on the sport that drove everyone's attention, and anything else was a distraction.
    The mentality on the mats was in my experience comparable to the boxing gym I trained at.
    Highly focused on the outcome, and anything outside of that drive was a distraction.
  5. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Having trained in judo centres, if that constitutes a lack of funding then I look forward to all martial arts being in similar straightened circumstances.
  6. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Its mainly down to their status as an Olympic sport, why would they cross train when there goal by and large is to either compete in the next games or train the future champions?

    Its where their funding comes from really so it's there focus, as is getting kids in its their clubs life blood.

    As is competing and knowing the rules its all tied into to being an Olympic sport.
  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    So you mean like they exclusively treat it as a sport type of thing rather than martial arts?
  8. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Pretty much, yes it's a martial art but one played almost exclusively around Olympic rule sets.

    Hence the striking is only in the kata and most clubs don't bother with that,

    hence they mainly concentrate on takedowns and sub's that are allowed in competition and hence they don't cross train.

    Why would you if your goal is to produce guys for the national team which in turn keeps your income coming in?

    Not saying this is 100% across the board but it is there and its also understandable

    Wrestling is largely the same, now many wrestlers looking to compete nationally see themselves as doing a martial art, are bothered with striking or submissions?

    Obviously some do but they are recreational guys, same as recreational judoka also do bjj but the club and the coaches tend to focus on their Olympic sport and its needs.

    How many gymnastics worry about doing athletes etc.
    axelb likes this.
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Interestingly I went to a seminar with Dave camarillo (US judo Blackbelt, BJJ Blackbelt, one time AKA coach etc etc) recently, and he is very much about "fight first" rules later, great guy, very intelligent. Apparently his attitude is quite unusual in the US judo world too.

    Re the UK judo attitude, it makes even less sense considering the majority of clubs will never send anyone to the Olympics anyway.
  10. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Judo has a specific rule set.
    I was forever being told off by my Sensei who wasan old school judoka for striking gouging etc
    My response was I train jujitsu and I wasn't prepared to train without these elements as I was never going to compete in judo so I wanted these skills as my natural default position.

    In my defence he would often hit me with an empi or punch whilst we randorried on the mats ...showing that Judo does have atemi

    My rambling is that if you train outside a sports rule set you will probably use these skills in competition and be disqualified...hence defeating the main purpose of your endeavours.

    Me's a arm bar or an arm wrap...use it

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  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Their funding comes from the same body, they compete in the same sport just at a lower level, their aim is to get someone into a national squad and to teach the sport they love.

    Not to fight.

    It's like saying the local gymnastics class will never get anyone to the Olympics's so why don't they also teach pakdour
    Dead_pool likes this.
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I definetly get your point, but it's not that black and white in all all clubs, The main place I trained was a small rural club full of 40 plus year olds who all had decades of training in and loved leg grabs, and they all abandoned them overnight, even though non of them even competed anymore, although to be fair they ran a monthly sessions under old rules because they enjoyed it more, and they thought they'll probably introduce them again at some point.
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  13. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    When you have sports that are similar but different it often can confuse people. Look at Rugby Union and Rugby League. In League you were allowed to barge with the shoulder (not now) where it was a penalty in Union. If you fell on the ground with the ball in Union the tackler had to let go of you and compete for the ball. In League 2-3 guys will hang on and lay on top of you until the referee calls a tackle. Very similar looking games, very different options.

    It comes down to why are you doing what you are doing? If you are preparing for battle then firearms, knives etc would seem a really important cross train that I don't see occur that much. If you are doing a sport then might as well get good at the rule set that you favour and enjoy what you do without the pretense that it's more ''realistic'' or ''useful'' because of the way it's put together. Funny thing is that if you play Sambo/BJJ and hit a leg lock it's ok where as it's a DQ in Judo. Similarly pick ups/leg attacks etc (without a set up from an upper body attack) will get you penalized if not DQ. If you just want to do open grappling then you don't have to worry about it (which our ne wazza was to a degree). It's interesting how there has been, to a degree, a split even within the BJJ community between those who favour sport rules as opposed to a more traditional BJJ format.

    Pretty in Pink, I would to have to ask, why favour some rules and ignore others. You think Judo should be cross training etc. No problem. What about in reverse? For example Judo had guard and guard slams. Would you equally say let's reintroduce slams into BJJ to try and expand what we do and be more realistic? Judo went from slams to 90 degree lifts being Ippon to completely throwing slams out. MMA has shown us that slams can cause quite an impact on what would have been a good ''traditional'' BJJ strategy. Anyway. I have no great love for orgs as I have seen both wrestling and judo hurt by the incessant need to make changes to make the sports more popular for TV / the Olympics etc. I would say if you don't like the way things are run, go train where you do like it :' )

    Hope this ramble is making a bit of sense.

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