Branching out

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by incubus, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. incubus

    incubus Valued Member

    Hi there, am seeing what others think about it.
    If one has trained in a Martial arts school for various years and finally reached black belt status. Than after a few years teaching other students in same club, one decides to open a school of same style by himself. Should one get permission from his instructor?

    What are your opinions?
     
  2. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Gaining your black belt only means you have a good grasp of the fundermentals of your art and it is said it is when you really start to learn.

    How much experience do you have teaching within your Kwoon? Most organisations/styles include teaching as part of their black belt/sash syllabus. As a matter of respect I would discuss this with your instructor, he will tell you when you are ready.

    Cheers

    Dan93

    Cognito Ergo Sum!
     
  3. incubus

    incubus Valued Member

    I have been teaching for many years in my kwoon. Was involved also for various years in running of club and part of committee.

    Is there something legally which bars me from mteaching same style?
     
  4. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Not in the States. Not to my knowledge. You might do it as a matter of courtesy for a presumed friend. But I don't think there's a legal issue to be had here.
     
  5. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Nothing legally, just could be seen as disrespectful. Is there a reason why you will not bring this up with your Sifu? Would you teach as part of your organisation or if not why do you want to branch out alone, disagreement?

    Cheers

    Dan93
     
  6. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Depends. I would certainly talk to them about it. Hell, they've done it before so I'd be after advice for sure if nothing else.

    Can also depend on how far away the location is and other variables.
     
  7. Revobuzz

    Revobuzz Valued Member

    Some students have to become teachers at some point otherwise we'd have no teachers.
     
  8. Janno

    Janno Valued Member

    As an instructor, one of the greatest achievements possible is to have my students graduate and move on to set up independently. It is also a great honour to be asked for support in helping them get started. I don't think your instructor will be offended at all :)
     
  9. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    Like has been said, at blackbelt you've only just got the basics down, It would be wise to continue learning for a while longer and get a higher degree of blackbelt, more so for the marketing point of view.

    I myself won't train under anyone less than 2nd degree, and I'm a lot more comfortable with 4th degree+

    But then again, with all the McDojos around, rank doesn't mean anything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
  10. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I think that's a poor gauge, personally.

    I have a first-degree black belt. I got it in 1993. Just stopped participating in ranking systems. Doesn't mean I stopped training or developing as a teacher.
     
  11. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    Is this a general rule for all arts or just the one you currently practise? Would you not train under a BJJ purple belt for example?
     
  12. Janno

    Janno Valued Member

    As a general rule, i don't train under muppets.

    At the end of the day, there are only two things you really need to measure an instructor by: Ability and attitude. Neither are dependent on rank.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2012
  13. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Rubbish. This is the typical myth propagated by systems which try to create a hiearchy created on who has been there the longest.

    Please somebody tell any BJJ purple/brown belt that they shouldn't be coaching. Please tell the Judo Brown belts that they can't teach the techniques that they have personally proven to work in competition.

    If you have proven technical ability (preferably demonstrated by some type of competition background) and have the ability to teach (this is greater than having a 'belt'), then you can teach.

    Also, pet rant. Black Belt does not equal coach. Why do people think that just because you have proven yourself against a grading system, that you are actually capable of teaching it?
     
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    That is a pretty dumb standard

    Firstly most systems do not even hold each grade in the same regard - a 1st Dan in Bujinkan is not the same as a first in Shotokan is not the same as in Kyukoshin is not the same as in BJJ etc....

    Secondly, certain systems have NO dan grades anyway - JKD, CACC & Boxing being the more obvious

    Thridly if someone is good they are good - rank is irrelevant

    Fourth some people look at belts as meaningless bits of cotton - I gave up on the belt mill a long time ago. Had I stuck with it I calculated I would be about a 5th Dan by now.

    Belts cover 2" of your ass - your skills have to cover the rest
     
  15. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    But you didn't, so you're not ;)

    Sorry Hannibal, I couldn't let that one slip by without comment. There are lots of MA ranks I would have now if I'd tested when asked, but I made my decisions (mostly politic BS) so when people ask me, "What rank are you in Wing Chun?" I have to answer honestly that I don't have one ;)

    If I'd have stuck with Shotokan (left in 2001 as a 1st Kyu) what Dan would I be now? Don't know, don't care. I may have become so sick of MA that I quit entirely!

    I always find the guys that say they are 'Almost a BB' remind me of the kids who say they are 'Almost 13' :)
     
  16. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Point taken and I agree to a extent that a black belt does not maketh the instructor but my entire point was that at blackbelt/instructor level (in a good org with a decent testing standard) they should have the basics of the system down to reach that grade, granted that this depends on the quality of the coaching available, Myth no . . just a benchmark standard of understanding and performing your art. Of course you learn from lower grades and it is dependant on the individual but at a blackbelt/instructor grade you should know ALL the fundamentuals of your art.

    I agree that some form of pressure testing is essential be it, but without a good standard of the basics of your art you will just teach bad technique i.e. over reliance on strength ect.

    Again good thing about a forum is different points of views and this is mine.

    Regards
     
  17. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    In my association yes, you need permission from the top senseis, the big kahunas, to open up a dojo. And you need to be usually a 3rd dan. though there is a dojo there run by a 2nd dan.
     
  18. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    but i am almost a green belt :p

    The way i see it, if I'd failed (been totally out to lunch and didnt have a clue what i was doing) I'd still call myself a orange belt. But since I didnt fail and just got one or two little things to work on, I'm a sort of inbetween. And thats what I call myself. An inbetween.
     
  19. Ives

    Ives Mokuteki o motte hajimeru

    It depends. Do you want to be associated with that instructor? Will you still follow his instruction, do you still attend (some of) his classes? Will you follow the same curriculum? Are you hoping that he can subsstitute for you, when you can't instruct your classes because of illnes, injury, etc.?

    Personally I would ask consult my instructors.
    Some black belts (even shodan) have recently opened up a new dojo within our association. Also my current instructor opened his dojo, as a shodan, after consulting with the association.
    I might even consider to open a dojo in the future myself.
     

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