Blindfolded Push-Hands

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by Visage, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Thanks tajiman and el medico - :D
     
  2. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Hey PB, koyo.

    whilst i don't disagree with your comments about training. ie. to see stuff..

    It's a bit out of context maybe to what is being done here. Sensitivity training with a push hands pattern is very common in taichi. For me it is to train the concept of no resistance, no seperation - from here you can work in your applications, resistence levels. I close my eyes sometimes, and find it good to optimize that particular thing - no resistance; no seperation. And my other remaining senses to what's going on in front of me - through contact

    If are talking about close in fighting (clinch/grappling range), then we are talking about making contact with hands to feel and 'know' what they are doing through that. Through that you can give yourself a good feeling of what the person is doing, wants to try and do.

    Good luck seeing a punch that come in from about a foot away without having contact with arms/ hands. A significant difference from someone being say 3ft away (for the sake of argument..)

    No it' not the be all and end all of combat situations by any stretch. But a good and fair consideration - especially in light of the taichi way of doing things.

    You may beg to differ of course, but i'm not buying it.. :)

    Deepest respects to you both. ( I would so love to train with you guys sometime) :love:
     
  3. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi cloudhands

    I have cross trained in win chun and have a number of friends who train in tai chi (and have trained blindfolded) just the once. I am afraid I may have over-reacted to being called a bozo and a post I offered sincerely being called utter codswallop. I do not speak to others like that nor allow them to speak to me (face to face ) like that.I found the manner of a number of the postings offensive and probably got caught up in it.
    Of course you would be most welcome to train at the makotokai if it is ever convenient.I shall invite the bear along. Incedently he IS a large powerful guy and a true gentleman. (in our company at least) :)


    regards koyo

    makotokai.co.uk

    Edit

    Many of our ushiro waza (attacks from behind ) are executed with little or no sight of the attacker so I do understand the concept.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2007
  4. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    I 'guessed' as much on all counts U. Bill.. But just fancied saying my little bit for tai chi.

    Kindest regards.

    And i bet the bear don't fight fair either.. ooh jeez :D
    When he's being an officer that is!

    Pigsy.
     
  5. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    I am always honoured to train with the guys at Makotokai, they are the finest Aikidoka I have encountered. I have learned so much from them that I recommend to everyone, regardless of style, I train with that they should spend atleast some time training there. I would be more than happy to train with you CloudHandz. I still train with many Tai Chi guys and learn much from them also.

    The Bear.
     
  6. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    bear-we have a very good boxing stable in my town that has produced both state Golden Gloves champs and a few pros.I know guys out of this gym who had up to 200+ fights, but they didn't leave every training session with multiple bruises.Not training hard enough,in your opinion?

    I've certainly trained out of my comfort zone in myriad ways and times,and also have the x-rays from regrettable moments of unskillfulness.I don't think being banged up every training session means anything in particular, tho' my old stablemates and I were no stranger to it.(My recently deceased cousin was a career military man who had killed in warfare.He was an excellent shot, but I never heard him say you should shoot 'til you draw blood from your shoulder or your practice wasn't worth the time).I've never heard any of my MT friends advocate it-(being banged up at every session)-, either.Not to say such things don't come with the territory,but that's akin to saying you should vomit at every practice.I do ken your general outloook, hard training and all, and don't disagree.

    For the record,blindfolded push hands isn't something I do in case I'm blinded in combat.
     
  7. Visage

    Visage Banned Banned

    And, for the record, thats not the reason we practice for either.

    James
     
  8. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    I figured that,Vis.
     
  9. Visage

    Visage Banned Banned

    Just thought I'd confirm it for anyone else.

    James
     
  10. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

     
  11. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    You could still train plenty of useful things bear!

    And sometimes it hurts!! But damn you is hardcore. :cool:

    On the no gloves thing, MMA gloves shouldn't make that much difference hey?

    And do you guys kick eachother in the nuts, seriously? But yea, i wouldn't bother with a cup probably, just a mouth gaurd. I've seen some clips of the stick fighting - it's brilliant, if not a little brutal looking sometimes. Never seen them kick eachother in the nuts though. One day i think i might give it a bash, if i'm feeling brave enough.. :eek:

    I think there may well be a group not that far away from me. Hot damn!
    Need a bit more bjj under my belt though I think. It seems to go to ground pretty easy.

    What you think.
     
  12. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    just goes to show, stupidity never goes out of fashion... :rolleyes:
     
  13. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    There's no stupidity in moderation tb.. i doubt I'd be making a habit of it.
    I doubt the sparring would be too injurious, Competative tourney things - yea. Most likely. There is always a risk of a bit of injury when having a go.. But usually nothing too heavy..

    anyway pain is good for you remember? ;)
     
  14. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Don't get me wrong, I have done tons of boxing training. There is nothing better in the world for fitness than a few rounds in the ring. Exellent for learning distance and timing and speed. It is great training but it is different from what Tai Chi martial training should be. Which should be more damaging in the training of it by the nature of the techniques applied.

    As for the stick fighting, I only added kicks and punches with my older brother as he was the only one up for it and the odd kick in nuts did occur though not intentionally (atleast by me). It is fantastic training in the koyo's first principle "Do Not Get Hit" because 40" of oak hurts like hell and you learn to protect yourself damn quickly. You really should give it a go. The first couple months you look like a zebra (striped with bruises) but you learn alot quicky.

    The Bear.
     
  15. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Thanks Bear That's bokken size right, not the eskrima style stick size. iv'e only got a small ruler here with me at the mo and you be the king of wood. :)
     
  16. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    No it called a single stick. A traditional british training weapon.

    All I'll say is that it's big enough to fill a pram. ;)

    The Bear.
     
  17. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on


    What...a whole pram? :eek:
     
  18. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Point taken,Bear.Well, half point,as some of the boxers I knew were awfully good when the gloves were off.

    I merely take issue with the idea that unless one leaves the training session w/multiple hematomae that the session wasn't worthwhile.While that was more often than not the case in my younger days I don't feel it's a necessity at every session,especially if one is training several times a week.I certainly agree w/what R.W. Smith said that one needs to be "stung frequently and hurt occasionally".

    Also,in your current occupation you are not faced with the reality of having to arise and milk the cows,work in the mine, or build the house, etc.You have to worry about your fingers.Others may have to be concerned that they can climb that ladder and swing that hammer all day.And we don't recover as fast as when we were younger.So the idea of constantly being banged up may be a bit prohibitive regarding functioning in the everyday world.And I think the world has produced some pretty good people who weren't banged up 24/7,so I'd say historical evidence belies your view.

    I don't see how constantly having major or minor "owies" equates to an increase in skill level.My aforementioned cousin,who was a 1st degree in I guess one would call it Korean military TKD,nor my other cousins who had killed in warfare, including hand-to-hand, never imparted they felt all sessions needed to be such.

    Well,we have our opinions.Have to go, my mom is 83 today,and I have to do a lot of manual labor at her place tomorrow,for which I'm glad I'm not lamed up or broken right now.I may be by days end tomorrow,tho'.Have a good weekend,and don't forget the dit da jow,you bruiser! :D
     
  19. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Hi Medico,
    To each their own, I agree once I get too old to take the damage, I will have to calm it down. I realise it's not as far away as I would like. On the plus side I withstood Koyo's aikido weapons seminar which was fascinating.
    I don't mind people training lightly as long as they remember that you have to pressure test yourself frequently to ensure your skills are there.

    The Bear.
     
  20. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Aye,lad.And a man's a man for a' that.
     

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