There was always this werid generational thing when I did Judo now that I think about it, I was like 17 to 18 everyone was always either a good few years younger or much older 30+, the few people I did meet around my age or in there 20s we're at least at the level of commonwealth games hopefuels, it was rare I met anyone around my age who just wanted to learn Judo. It might be my imagination but you felt allot like some people thought what is this kid doing here, the guys who I really got somthing out of in Judo where all in there 50s and 60s when I'd listen to them talk about there heyday it all sounded much more like the atmosphere I'd seen in the little mma and BJJ I'd done than any judo club I'd visited, hard training, competition and old school mentality and banter, Judo often felt like allot of people were doing it to get out the house and away from there wife's once or twice a week, I think that's why allot of the older guys like'd me and took the time to work on me I came to train and put the work in, this was a big part of me jumping ship, I always felt like if those guys were young now they would be doing BJJ not Judo.
I think something like a Judo is injurious by nature, even compared too other martial arts. You can only take getting slammed in to the ground so many times. A local black belt with 30 plus years of experience got injured at a masters event because a fall broke his ribs. Just one of those things. I have yet to see a series injury at a local BJJ tournament. In local judo tournaments there was always someone who dislocated a shoulder or hard their wrist broken etc... It happened every time. I know drop out rate in martial arts is quite high, but speaking to others the number one reason I've heard for quitting judo is injury. Judo is cheap as Oldi says, so it isn't the expense that is off putting. Randori might be many things but it's seldom boring. So I don't think tedium is a big reason for drop out rates. I know I moved to bjj because I was fed up going to the physio/podiatrist because of judo.
I train allot of stand up grappling (wrestling and sambo) with my BJJ so its hard for me to say personnaly but I see allot of people messed up in some way just doing BJJ all the time. Not saying there isn't a higher injury rate in Judo maybe there is ? Certainly don't think it can be attributed has a major reason for Judo's apparent decline.
as an ex childhood and current thirty something Judo-ka - yes judo is far far harder on the body then BJJ - its the big amplitude throws (and people twisting out of them to avoid getting scored against) which does it.
Agree Fusen. With respect, things like ankle picks and single/double leg take downs are still legal in freestyle wrestling and sambo. These are generally low amplitude takedowns and the person being taken down may not be elevated off the ground. In modern judo those moves are illegal. Even before modern rule changes, throws like seoi nage and uchimata were the most popular takedowns in judo http://www.bestjudo.com/article/0924/frequency-judo-techniques Judo rules are in favour of High amplitude takedowns which in my experience take a far greater toll compared to low amplitude takedowns were a person isn't elevated off the ground.
Got to disagree with this I'm not totally lacking in Judo experince and sambo isn't a million miles away from the same thing, wrestling is far harder on the body. EDIT: we'll maybe not far harder that would depend on individual clubs and what level your at but how often in randori do you really see people caught with a proper clean throw, it doesn't happen all the time unless you really suck.
Agreed, all the takedown arts are heavy on the body, judo in particular for knee and shoulder injuries, which I imagine also goes for sambo too.
As a 40 something Aikidoka who needed to push myself a bit more I was torn between Judo and BJJ. In the end I chose BJJ for two reasons. Firstly watching judo I didn't like the stop/start ruleset, turtling, timeout when it went to the ground etc that spoiled the full pressure element I was looking for. BJJ obviously has the buzzer at the end of a round or a submission & I like the feeling of having to keep going no matter what...although I tap a lot and would love to survive to hear the buzzer! Secondly I've got enough air miles from Aikido and it's surprisingly easy to get hurt in a compliant throwing art let alone a full contact one, so I could see Judo destroying what uninjured parts of my frame I have left. Ironically though, I'm not training at all right now due to injury :bang:
Nice, just don't be this guy (from a list of BJJ Archetypes) THE EX KUNG FU OR AIKIDO GRANDMASTER GUY He always reassures you in the fact that he is a blackbelt in some traditional style , as you start to roll he grabs you with a death grip from hell and will never pull guard , even after two years of training. You pull guard and sweep him with a basic butterfly guard because if you pull closed guard he just grabs and pinches your arms making it not worth your effort. You pass his guard and mount, and even after being told 253 times that you cannot wrist lock a guy and throw him off from the bottom mount, he tries it again, and you start salivating from his arm being extended as you slowly move into the armlock.
I know for me personally and in my club people are begrudgingly making the switch because people are getting annoyed with the constant rules changes, some that eliminate the use of obviously useful techniques. And the gi rules in Judo can be a total nightmare. You travel to a tournament only to find out you can't compete because your gi measurements don't meet regulations that you didn't know about. Or didn't understand. And to find out that the gi you spent a lot of money on will now be useless to you in competition from then on. I don't know if this problem also exists outside of my area but a lot of complaints about the quality of the judges/referees and questionable calls is another issue.
That statement being about why I am seeing Judo players leaving for BJJ, I realized I didn't touch on the marketing/advertising aspect of it. (Something I do for a living sometimes.) Judo does not have an infomercial disguised as a series of martial arts tournaments. (The early UFC was so obviously marketing that it makes me roll my eyes every time I watch them. The commentators who were obviously in the Gracie camp, constantly talking about how great Gracie Jiu Jitsu is as if it was this world renowned thing when nobody knew what it was until UFC 1 outside of Brazil and a minority of people exposed in the US. The award ceremony for Helio. Etc.) I just went and re-watched 1-5 again and it was painfully obvious what I was looking at. I literally kept waiting to hear "CALL NOW! For just $19.95 a month you can order the Gracie Combatives DVD set!" Not to mention the shenanigans of time limits and the possibility of a "draw" being added out of nowhere in the middle of a bout when Ken Shamrock was pounding on Royce's face in the first superfight. The completely dishonest statements made about how the Gracie family was undefeated for decades, etc. (Kimura anyone?) I remember around that time, someone caught on to this idea and developed their own martial arts style infomercial known as "Shidokan". With dozens of martial artists in a brutal tournament lavishing praise on the Shidokan style of Karate. I watched a History Channel international episode about Helio Gracie, and using a "circus" style marketing scenario has been the Gracie marketing strategy since the early days in Brazil. I love BJJ. I study BJJ. But there is a great deal to the marketing tricks that affect this. I still roll my eyes when I think of how Joe Rogan mentioned that Ronda Rousey must of learned her armbar from studying BJJ, as if there hasn't been an Armbar in Judo for hundreds of years longer then BJJ has even existed.
I also just realized that I forgot to suggest solutions: 1. Make "Freestyle Judo" a real option at tournaments. 2. Establish another federation if the current federations refuse to fix the things that are literally killing their sport and the martial art associated with it. Spend less energy on things like whether or not someone's sleeve is an inch shorter then it should be, and more on having solid calls during matches.
Got to take a bit of issue with this post, lets not forget the original UFC events were two and a half decades ago now, BJJ out grew the Gracie era a long time ago, how much the UFC was a way for them to promote there name has very little to do with why BJJ is overtaking Judo now. As far as Ronda that's just one guy though, and having listened to her appearance on his podcast its obvious he simply doesn't know much about Judo (he and Eddie Bravo seem'd genuinely surprised Judo had submissions at all) its not like it's a predetermined effort by Joe Rogan or the UFC to paint any grappler who does well as a BJJ athlete as part of there larger campaign to promote BJJ as the ultimate martial art. Remember the UFC has completely different owners from the era your talking about and has done for almost 20 years, we have seen the wave of Olympic style wrestlers dominate, the wave of catch style wrestlers have success, fighters from Russia having a boom, Strikers starting to win ground back form all the grappler's up to the all around athletes we have to day. Allot has happen'd in the sport and in the UFC since it was simply a tool to promote Gracie Jiu Jitsu, to imply other wise would be to look like you haven't been paying attention. I think Judo gets plenty of credit for Ronda, but here's the big point you know who cares the least about her success or what its credited too ? PEOPLE WHO DO JUDO ! allot of people doing Judo don't care what else is going on in the martial arts world, it feels like only the last couple of years the Judo community at large is really starting to recognize and understand what BJJ even is, don't get me wrong wanting to play in your own sand box is fine but it does leave you vulnerable to something else sneaking up and taking your spot which is very likely what will happen to Judo if it doesn't realize doing something to make it as or more attractive to new practitioners as BJJ is far more important to its survival than all the silly rule changes intended to keep it in the Olympics.
I think I should clarify something. I don't think Joe Rogan was intentionally trying to help the UFC market BJJ, as he didn't even really come around until after the Gracies weren't using it as an infomercial. However, it points to the ignorance many people in the martial arts world have when it comes to Judo. I don't think it's an accident that Renner Gracie corners Ronda Rousey and does videos about her fights as if to bring attention back on BJJ. I still feel however that it was the early ultimate fighting championships that brought attention to BJJ. There were a few Judo Black belts who were in those earlier tournaments who for the most part did poorly.
