BJJ slamming vs wrestling slamming

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by roninmaster, Nov 30, 2014.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That's actually my favorite guard open, there's so much space underneath them that the guard open is easy, unless they've got a good open guard game.
     
  2. FunnyBadger

    FunnyBadger I love food :)

    In a few of those clips it shows some one leaping onto the other, if your standing and your opponent leaps onto you what are you supposed to do? You can't stay standing with any hope of doing anything when there is someone of similar weight to you attached to your shoulders so the fight has to get to the floor. How do you take it there with out slamming from that circumstance? The slam arond the 5.30 mark is an example of this. I may just be very ignorant here (in which case please please try and educate me :) ) but I can't see many other options in that kind of scenario that don't put you at a huge disadvantage because the other guy is abusing the rule set by jumping guard knowing it limits your options.

    Don't take that as me arguing for slamming, I can see how it could be very dangerous I am just curious as to what legal techniques you can use. The majority of those clips were not like the situation I am referring to and there is no excuse but in a few its hard to see much else. Also in a street fight that surely is the first thing someone would do to a guard jumper that and I find the complete lack of any break falling (lol at the self ko) makes it seem like a very bad habbit to get into even if jumping into guard is great in that rule set.
     
  3. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    At the low comps I did it was a bit of a grey area, but seemed to be if someone jumped guard and hit the floor hard that's their problem. You were only in trouble if they jumped and you blatantly tried to drive them down harder.
     
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    You can push the hips down, open the guard and start standing passing, or you can push the body down and kneel down keeping good posture and start kneeling opening. Or you can get hip grips and sit back in a sitting chair guard open and start standing passing

    Or if you control the grip fight they wont be able to jump full guard to begin with.

    Bjj isnt a street fight. And neither is judo or wrestling.
     
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Slamming is putting unnecessary force into them.

    If you need to put them on the floor, just put them on the floor without trying to Injure them.

    Its the same with double legs etc, if you pick them up and slam them down with unnecessary force you will get dq'd.
     
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I would add "with intention". There has been instances where, I have been taken down hard and done it myself.
    I will use my full force (not anymore due to injuries) to get that DL, and why shouldn't I?
    Altho the rules differ where I can win by pin which is accessible by the DL, the opponent knows whats up and I'm not there to injure him. But I also don't know how strong the other guy is so I might as well go all in. Any issues the Ref will jump in.

    But yes there is a thin line between, necessary and unnecessary
     
  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Grab the legs or hips before their guard closes. You get two points and it counts as a take down.
     
  8. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Not trying to be stupid or anything but this reminds me of getting tackled in rugby. If you run upright and let someone run shoulder into you (while wrapping) you are going to get bent in half. Bad posture etc sets you up to get hurt. If you jump guard then you may be jumping into a position where you leave yourself unable to defend the slam so in a simliar way you are partly responsible for your own state. Judo used to give ippon for the lift before just banning guard jumps (which used to be allowed ) but they saw that guard jumps left you more vulnerable than was reasonable.

    Having been hit by large people many times (both with and without ground contact) it seems odd that this is considered to be so dangerous. As mentioned before if you have been supplexed (or similar throws where you can't breakfall) you notice that people don't just 'break' that easily.

    Seems odd that this is such a concern in an art that allows flying joint submissions etc...

    :' )

    LFD
     
  9. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Jumping guard should be banned or at least penalised. You wouldn't do it if your opponent could slam you down.
     
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    You get points if you grab their legs or hips as get go for it. It's just that nobody really drills that technique.
     
  11. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I agree completely, and that's the situation in the youth BJJ match I was talking about as well. The kid who got his bell rung jumped onto the other kid and wrapped his legs around him putting ALL of his weight on the other kid, who was still standing, turned and then came down with the kid. In youth wrestling at all levels that was completely legal.

    I feel that if people don't like that, stop teaching kids these foolish and dangerous guard pulls or at least teach them the basics of breakfalling and head tucking if your going to. Don't freak out when your kid ends up on his back when he jumps on someone. They don't let kids do flying arm bars (for good reason) but for some reason it's legal to leap on someone and make them responsible for YOUR safety.
     
  12. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Breakfalling and tucking doesn't help if you get dropped on the back of your neck - that's why they're banned.
     
  13. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    EXACTLY.
     
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    GUARD PULLING IS PERFECTLY SAFE AND YOU CAN COUNTER IT AND GET POINTS WITHOUT RESORTING TO SLAMS!

    Am I being ignored on purpose?
     
  15. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    The temptation to edit this post is high :p
     
  16. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I'm trying to think of any time I've seen someone jump guard and actually get hurt. Know I never did at least. Besides, the game seems to have moved on now away from jumping and more into putting a foot on the hip and pulling.
     
  17. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    What would you change it too? ><
     
  18. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    But I still think it wouldn't be done nearly as often if your opponent had the option of slamming you down. Jumping into guard is (tied with butt scooting) by far the worst thing in modern BJJ.
     
  19. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    And nobody would pull guard if you could punch them. Blunt force trauma is not what the sport emphasises.
     
  20. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    But a slam is a legitimate takedown within a grappling based sport. It has been banned because it can be dangerous, and jumping guard has become so commonly used because that threat has been removed. I think if you deliberately put yourself in a position to be slammed, the slam should be a legal counter.
     

Share This Page