Billy Robinson home coming tour

Discussion in 'Wrestling' started by Gripfighter, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Its a numbers game, theres just more quality people doing BJJ, aside from luta etc most nogi only placed are not great.
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Well you would also get people from freestyle backgrounds in there too, and we have CSW, so I would defo enter a Catch competition. :/
  3. Diargo

    Diargo Valued Member

    There would be very few "pure" catch wrestlers left that's why the priority of the Snakepit Wigan, at the moment, doesn't seem to be to mass produce a "bunch of experienced grappling guys with some catch techniques" to go out and spread the word of Catch, but to develop a core system of wrestlers.

    To pass on the art to those interested in Catch wrestling alone and perhaps from them it will develop and be 'sold' to MMA, BJJ guys to supplement their game. It would appear Roy wants to produce some Catch wrestlers who want to learn Catch for Catch's sake... but this is conjecture on my part!

    As for teaching people who will go back to their gyms and practise their art well that's up to the individuals surely and inevitably that will be the case with some... but not all.

    Of course the tournaments will have people from different backgrounds having a go at the Catch wrestling ruleset if the tournaments are "open" much like how with a large part of the striking tournament circuit can have kung fu guys, karate, tae kwon do and kickboxers.These in of themselves would be a way of advertising the style to other practitioners. However I'd have thought there would be closed tournaments, inter club competitions etc. specifically for Catch wrestlers.

    There are the freestyle wrestlers for which a transition to Catch wouldn't be such a leap and so a bloom in numbers may increase from them due to similarities in style..

    But if you look at the wider Catch world where there has been little control/regulation of people's training... you get lots of well known people claiming training under coaches that they just didn't have... or they had one or two seminars and they claim they have been coached by the likes of... So I can understand why the Snakepit wigan wants to regulate the dissemination of the art. It may be at the sacrifice of having everybody and their dog jump onboard but then the integrity of Catch wrestling needs to be established in of itself first.

    Anyway just my two cents worth.
  4. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    do you no what the average price is for one of there seminars ?

    EDIT: found out, 50 quid, hard to believe anyone is paying those type of prices for a class that doesn't already have prior experience and involvement with some kind of martial art or combat sport.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  5. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Say what??

    Why dont you find out? If your that confident in your points pop along and then you have a leg to stand on for your points. Maybe ask about things that are bothering you.
    Untill then, well its hilariouse seeing whats been said.
  6. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    To back that point up pop along. It will back all my points up. Thats the only way. Untill then..hilariouse nonsense. A valid personal opinion but one said in the comfort of a forum or one genuinly felt and prepared to say in the real world?
  7. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Again, pop along to find out and prove your point guessed it....hilariouse forum nonsense.
  8. Pompeythegreat

    Pompeythegreat Im Very White Aparently

    Sorry to bring this up so late in the thread but... if you have met Karl Gotch and if you trained under him I would without and problem make the 2 hour bus ride to 5 Elements just so i can do CACC
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Ill reply properly in the morning, surfice to say any environment whereby a student is made to fight the coach when they have a difference of opinion is not a healthy training environment.

    My other points were in relation to Mr morris's blog which talk about his upbringing and constant drive to be the best, which is highly indicative of a naturaly high levels of testosterone.
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If you cant discuss things rationally, maybe you shouldnt be on a discussion forum.
  11. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    What the talking about. Why would you have to fight?
    And if the trainings so bad you would be fine anyway with your Catch skills and better submission skills even if you did, surely.

    Your difference of opionion is about what I have said. To show my points are wrong and yours are true you would have to train and then validate what your saying . Otherwise its nonsense based on not much.
    And the answer to can he teach his ability would also be given.
  12. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    You seem to have missed my post altogether. I had to very aimple fw bits that it doesnt take a grappling wizard to understand or any need for me to prove anything:

    1. His interview didnt wxplain anyhting about Who he tained with, where'd he learn to deal with guard variations and the like as well as leglocks and other things now common ingrappling aspecs of mma. You can't claim catch and catch techniques when he's never trained with catch wrestlers in an any format. Thats logic and he said himself that he learnt from fighting. I train open mat a lot and it comes down to bringing various styles in to learn to edal with them
    I wonder if he brings people in to help athletes deal with tactics of bjj players or wrestlers and fill in gaps he might have.
    It wasn't less of a point, more of a question

    2. Just generally your a coach way too full of yourself to claim that the success of an athlete is down to you after they have moved away, because that athlete has provably moved away to find what they feel as more competent coaching. It's true of any sport.

    Any answers for 1. And do you agree with 2.
  13. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Why are we discussing this?
    This is a billy robinson thread. Hasn't t been estabilisged that Morris doesn't come from a catch lineage?
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Ive not actually said whether the training is good or bad, only that your posting on here is not doing mr morris any favours.
    Im relation to the Fighting aspect, you yourself posted this:
    If a MMA coach handles a question from an Professional MMA fighter by challenging them to a fight, Then you can bet noone else is going to be asking questions.

    Ps the above is from how you described the incident, his response may well if been valid ddepending in the actual situation.
  15. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    The only clear answer you will get is by actualy training. Thats my point. Untill then no matter what I say, there will be a reason why its not good grappling or there are not elements of catch as can. To me your too concerned with lineage and a seperation of grappling and striking.It doesnt matter as long as it works in a fight against other skilled people and is proven so ,either in high intensity spars and drills or in actual fights.

    Not everything in pure BJJ and wrestling fits in when striking is involved so its the fundamentals that are important and making them fit seamlessly with striking. Guys with BJJ and wrestling backgrounds train with Steve and I honestly dont know if he consults them but I have never known any of them so complain about his grappling being poor in relation to MMA.

    Point 2. I dont get why you say that. Why is he being full of himself? Also a question was asked about what Champions he trained and when names are mentioned its now bad. Say what?
  16. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Come on, be may not say it directly as in I cant quote you directly but your questioning the quality of grappling. You know it, I know it. Its all fair enough and I have taken on the task of answering your questions. If it doesnt do him any favours to some, fair enough but I dont see that.
    The only way to know for sure is to train. If afterwards its still considered poor with reasons why , then its more valid.

    But he was not asking a question, he was arguing it would not work. Your right, my discription does miss out alot, im not a story teller. After wards Steve even went up to him as he waited outside and asked if he wanted to come back in to train but he said no...then Steve asked him if he wanted to fight again and the fighter said no and left.. Now thats just Steve and , oh dear, does him make him sound a big nasty man. He would not just randomly fight someone for asking a question but it would annoy any coach if they question their training and argue the toss.

    I dont know if you know but Karl Gotch once got arrested for fighting and beating up a fellow wrestler up on a locker room once and had a rep of not being the friendliest person. So would you then not train with him or use that against him. I doubt it.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  17. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Apologies, I meant to say I have never know any of them TO complain.
  18. emaaoz

    emaaoz Valued Member

    Having done my first session there yesterday I agree wholeheartedly with this. Roy is extremely knowledgeable and a great coach and has no interest in MMA. It was a pretty small group, but all the people there (me included) have a real interest in traditional catch for the sake of traditional catch and whilst it was obvious that we came to it from different backgrounds when we were wrestling at the end of the session everyone was trying to do what we had been taught to do.

    Both Roy and Andrea are very clear that the end goal for them is to create a group of people who are both competent at the art, and also able to pass it on in a way that ensures its survival. If you want to adapt it and use it in other ways then fine, but you have to know it first.

    There are only three guys left from Riley's still teaching, one of them is pure freestyle, one is heavily influenced by MMA and based in the US and one is still in Wigan teaching the holds, takedowns and submissions he was taught when he was a kid.

    Why wouldn't he want it to survive?
  19. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Viva le Revival!

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