Possibly - or you could go on a ratio of fighters & champions as a measure It is not reall worth a discussion as such, nor is it a knock on Steve, more a reflection that the choice for "using bits and bobs" is far wider than the actual art. Up north is the best place if you want it relatively old school - there is a CACC club in Wigan still I believe. In Manc there is also the exceptionally scary Matt Clempner too
True. But what about the ratio of having a full time gym with the same regular students. The last time that was the case with Steve Morris was at Earlam street the the 70's and early 80's.A few world champs and highly rated fighters came out of his Earlam Street Gym and visited there and it was one of the first gyms MMA/NHB type training was taking place, definitly in the UK. Now its not the case as there is no full time gym but he does train pro fighters in private sessions including some from Wolfs Lair, one of which was voted Britains top up and coming heavyweight MMA fighter. I think you will find at a Pro level his training is well respected. You cant compare to some one with a full time gym and all the set up and commercial backing. Its not case of using bits and bobs, its a case of using what is effective in the context of MMA or a no rules fights. If that keeps elements of Catch as can alive....as in the fighting keeps it alive not just training an art for the sake of it, then that fullfills what the art was proberbly about to start with...fighting..catch what you can.
Haha. Nice one. I say NHB because saying MMA gives the impression that its just competition with MMA rules but some Catch as can goes outside of even some MMA competition rules just like it does with Judo or BJJ comps. Plus im not bothered about being 'In'. Hey, I still listen to Fugazi ..Im soooooooo 1990;s.
What is Steves catch experience then? Unfortunatly catch seems to be mostly used as a marketing term by people with little to no actual training connection to the real deal. Im still digging oldschool megadeth myself!
Pure catch ,in catch competitions? I dont know. What his pure catch experience is, is not important to me. Its his NHB fighting experience and training thats important and within that are elements of Catch that fit wnd work well in NHB fighting. I just wanted to point out, because someone suggested its rare in the UK, where elements of catch are being used. Blame me for bringing it up it is no way used as marketing by Steve himself. If you want some kind of lineage or just to do catch for catch as can sake then its a different matter and is different from fighting in a no rules fight. If you think I am just randomly saying it or dont mean it as helpfull info for anyone interested or questioning the training just simply train and find out and you have a case for what it is or what it isnt.
So what your saying is he hasnt had a catch teacher, and has never competed in catch, yet knows it enough to teach it to others to not only use it in MMA but in actual NHB, Kinda like erik paulson just without the teachers or experience.
Hes from the same era as steve cook and terry oneil and john will, and theres only one name on that list whos word I would trust.
The truth is in the fighting..does it work in the fight, in the drills, in violence and chaos...it doesnt matter who teaches it as long as its proven true in the context of a fight against other skilled people. Like I say the simple thing to do is try the training. If not then its just opinion. Erik Paulson took a different route and had pro fights and has a record and full time gym etc. Steve has had lots and lots of fights off the record, no rules, against anyone who wanted to. ANYONE who turned up from any style. Theres no difference, in way, just that Eric Paulson is a name and if he trained what Steve did it would considered amazing.
Where did steve learn his grappling? Or is it self taught? Has he used it against skilled practioners? Are you saying Eriks catch is the same level as steves?
He says himself he is mainly self taught. Also from No Holds Barred fights, from Judo and wrestling guys who visited his gym when he had one, from anything thats worked in an MMA context. He teaches it to pro fighters and I guess has used it when needed against who ever wanted to fight. Its not about a seperation of wrestling or striking with Steve though, its about the fight as a whole with no seperation between the two. I dont know enough to comment on Erik Paulson. Steve has been doing it longer and I personaly would, form what I do know and have seen of Erik, easily put him up there with Erik. Thats my opinion though. And to judge fully a person would have train with both. If not its assumption and opinion. Concerning being self taught...alot of people who are highly regarded in their field, no matter what it is, are or were self taught. It might be surprising who was. An example from music, which there are many, would be Jimi Hendrix. A person being self taught does not mean anything if they can prove it when actualy doing it or prove it to you when you do it too. No matter where it comes from it works or it doesnt.
Self taught is fine, but if your selling something with a name, being honest is the key to be trustworthy. Self taught grappling is not catch wrestling, its self taught grappling, If your try and sell it as elements of catch yadda yadda, then you are trying to be dishonest, a self made system should and will stand on its own merits. Teaching anoynmous 'pro fighters' is no real claim to fame, Ive taught people that are 'pro fighters.' It doesnt realy mean anything without names or records. Theres people in my city who've had a 'pro MMA fight' with ZERO real training, Its sad but it happens. If your using the pro fighter angle to get publicity them WHICH fighters? Name the organisation and the record? For the record theres some great people who are 'self taught,' although that actually normally means trained under many people but arnt formally ranked due to politics, such as Nathan Leverton, who I would consider an excellent coache. I have never met steve and Its easy to tell from the youtube clips that he can generate large amounts of force, but why all the hero worship and hyperbole?
I dont get what your talking about as its me that is saying there are elements of catch not Steve. I mentioned it.And its me that is saying he trains pro fighters out of Wolfslair in private sessions and me who is saying he trains other pro fighters. In no way is he advertsing some kind of false thing. Its fight training that is proven in the drills you train or fights you have. I could of said there are elements of boxing, or Greco Clinch but as it was a post about Catch, I posted about catch. And I am just answering some of your questions that your asking. I think your expecting different answers or for me to come unstuck. Sorry its not going to happen. Either try the training or stick to unfounded assumtions. Theres no hero worship here just pointing out where I belive good training can be found.
I'd say that 'The Snakepit Wigan' will probably factor into that.. Coach Roy Wood who trained under Billy Riley for years and re-opened Riley's gym under Billy Riley's tutelage, with some of the old hats in regular attendance, is giving regular Catch as Catch Can seminars with the aim of producing Catch wrestlers. I think their aim is to revive Catch as Catch can as the art in of itself, not for MMA, not for No GI competitions under IBJJF rulesets etc. I don't think you can get more authentic then the man who trained under Billy Riley for so long, had a professional wrestling career, re-opened Riley's gym then created Aspull wrestling club where he coached freestyle wrestling successfully enough to be a coach at the Olympics. The icing on the cake being the man is still on the mat wrestling and demonstrating the techniques used in Riley's gym by the likes of Alf Robinson, Billy Riley, Bob Robinson... I too wish for it's revival, too many charlatans and BS political playing has scuppered Catch Wrestling's reputation. :bang:
So three pages later we can still say its rare? Justy wanted to clear that up Oh and not a comment on Steve or anyone, but the phrases: “self taught”, “hundreds of street fights,” “no sanctioned fighting record”, “not a full time coach”, “has no full time gym”, “defeated all challengers to his gym in true NHB”,”UFC is not true no holds bar fighting” and “trained some pro fighters” whilst on their own don’t bother me or set off any bull detector off when combined to talk about one person they don’t inspire confidence And comparing someone with the above associated to their name with Eric Paulson (aproven fighter, grappler and trainer of known MMA champions) is just silly
I've a feeling that if you asked Steve Morris if he did elements of CACC he'd give it the old "WTF?" As far as I can see Steve Morris teaches the Morris method of NHB fighting and draws from many avenues but most notably his own experiences. He's not really a "X" anything.
Just because this video is awesome..... [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqq_LWudBek"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqq_LWudBek[/ame]
