In a streetfight there is no effective martial art, someone who says differently has never been in a streetfight. A streetfight can happen anywhere, in a bar, on the dancefloor, in the street etc. Almost every situation is different, your opponant might be drunk has hell or on drugs. Hell he might be a black belt in some art has well. The main issue with this is that we have been throw so many martial arts movie with all theses invincible actors that we start to beleive all the hype, even worst MMA came to life. I studied karate for a long time shotokan at first then kyokushin along with tae kwon do. I am far from being a street fighter got into 3-4 fights in my life, on a dancefloor where its jam packed crowded with a drunk guy that i just punch in the face no fancy techique there, and others in the street after a party. Your adrenaline is very high in a street fight, your heart beats fast has hell so how are you able to think of what you are going to do. I just hit and hit and hit til i see blue or at least thats how i did it younger. Today i have learned and i just walk away which is even harder to do when it comes to protecting your pride that is called humility. Now a true respectful person should never bash any art, i have seen a lot of bashing from the MMA and Thai Boxing guys claiming that there arts are superior then almost anything out there. The only thing that is different, i have training MMA and Muay Thai for 3 months, its the very hard training and conditioning of these arts, and the sparring being at almost every class. But then again its in a ring or a cage you have the time to prepare, get your hands up and protect yourself, in most street fights you dont. Knees and striking are very usefull in a street fight, now all karate style either it be shotokan, kyokushin, kenpo, shorin ryu, yoseikan will teach you knee striking and self defense, the only thing is that a part from kyokushin you are not allowed to use them in sparring. I dont pay to much attention to people bashing other arts, they are immature and dont know what they are talking about. martial arts is a spiritual way of life at least that is the way i see it, practice what you love, after all that is whats important here, not bashing your next door neighbor head in.
Of course there is no skill in throwing a punch into a guy that is 2 inches away but you learn how to punch more effectively from such a short distance.
On this note, I would recommend learning Krav Maga if you wish to learn practical self defense skills, mui tai, Brazilian jujitsu, and all the rest of MMA kind-of-stuff wont help you against a knife, or more than one opponent, or both...
On the other hand there are probably a fair number of good Aikido, Karate and Ju Jitsu clubs who may do it equally well - or even better. It's all horses for courses, swings and roundabouts, pots calling kettles and all the time there are plenty of other fish in the sea.
There is always the option to self train, i have the bas rutten training cd and dvd, that will get you in amazing shape real fast. Doesnt mean because your class if over that you cannot do more at home.
Not to drift too far off topic, but... source? How is learning to punch, kick, throw and choke not adequate defense? If you can slip a punch you can slip a knife. Or do I have to re-tell the story about how my MMA-trained friend defended himself against three guys again? For the record, the Gracies have a book that includes self-defense against armed attacks. Personally I think it's garbage, but the fact remains that it's being taught.
Okay, been expecting this. Look, as an IDF solider, I can tell you that i've used Krav Maga techniques, where my 2nd DAN in shotokan and years of kumite training didn't help me a bit. Krav Maga, as it is taught in the army, is VERY effective as self defense. It becomes instinctive in few months training where Karate\Jujitsu\Judo\etc.. (Not even talking about Brazilian jujitsu, you can't use it in real life self defense, it can help knowing it, but useless all by itself.) take YEARS to train your body to remember, and many black belts won't even use their Karate when attacked in a real life threatening situation. And I have witnessed it first hand, with all my Karate training, I found myself protecting myself using Krav Maga when it came to it. Using techniques I would never have thought I'd use.
Fair point, but what I meant was that you shouldn't paint all Karate etc with the same brush. Krav Maga is generally an effective art and many of its techniques have been combat proven. There are many of systems out there that have combat proven techniques as well. Most military and police units in my experience mix and match, cherry picking from different systems. A vast amount of Karate techniques can be instinctively used from flinch positions in high pressure situations after very little training, the reason why many can't/don't use them is because they spend far too long training their techniques for the wrong situations at the wrong range in a less appropriate manner. I personally wouldn't be surprised if when you examined closely the techniques you learned in Krav you'd find that they are Karate movements applied differently to how you'd been taught in Karate.
Thought now might be a good time to post this vid? [ame="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I_zmL6BRCOA"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I_zmL6BRCOA[/ame]
which would be relevant if that's how all krav was. but it's not. the majority of the krav out there is every bit as hilariously pathetic as the majority of the karate out there; they just use you as their marketing material, rather than mr miagi.
Nobody's saying Krav is "krap". I'm actually a big fan of it. But saying you can't use such-and-such to defend yourself when people clearly have used it to defend themselves is simply stating a fallicy. Now I haven't seen IDF Krav training, but some of the training I've seen in the civilian programs utilize the same training methodology of MMA and related programs, and some "traditional" martial arts programs such as karate or kung fu. Training methodology, coupled with propper mindset, tends to be the difference-maker with respect to effective training. But I'm currious as to where you get this "it takes YEARS" idea from. The basics of most any system can be taught in a very short period of time.
I agree, if people are being taught self defense without really getting hurt - punched, kicked, knocked down, etc - It doesn't really matter what they learn, It wont work. HOW you learn the technique is just as important as the techniques you're learning. BTW, I KNOW that Krav Maga uses moves from Karate, but when you come to think of it, most martial arts share kicks, punches, blocks. I think that the state of mind, self esteem, control, discipline and life style, that training in Karate gives you, is the reason to learn Karate. I didn't say it takes years to learn the basics - or even some advanced stuff. It takes years to make it usable in actual self defense. To sum my point up, Karate had been used in the past for self defense, but it went hand to hand with hard conditioning, and very physical training. When people want to learn self defense techniques, they don't want to hit trees with their shins for hours, or hit sticks with their fingers to toughen them up.
Hi all, karate guy here. :hat: Karate can be used for effective self defense, one on one, against an unarmed attacker.(just like other arts) I think if you get right down to it there is no art that is really effective self defense when real world violence (multiple attackers. weapons,etc)is unleashed. To have effective self defense you have to get rid of the art,which I'm not willing to do. Some karate can be less effective than other karate. I do goju, which we pressure test and spar on a regular basis. It's good for getting to know your limitations. I know what works for me and what doesn't. I think it's important to be realistic about what we do and to know what you can and can't do.
therein lies your failure, which can cost you your life. you don't fight with your martial art. you fight. not the same same thing.
Sure you just fight, but you fight using the technique of you Martial Art, otherwise you're just throwing random sloppy punches and kicks etc. I do agree that for truly effective self defense the concept of separate 'styles' has to be abandoned, but the individual techniques from styles are needed, its just a matter of knowing which techniques are effective and which aren't. Some people just haven't been fortunate enough to have experienced Boxing, Muay Thai, Kyokushin etc. or had the chance to wrestle/grapple.
To learn to punch properly kyokushin has the boxing techic, i think kenpo has it to at least the dojo i checked out near my house. More traditional karate doesnt have boxing technics, like jab, hooks, straight punching and more. I still say it all depends on the surroundings, and your temper and the situation. Last time i was in a fight it was in a club i was 25 years old at that time, just dancing and having fun, a guy hit me in the nuts and starts laughing at me, on the dance floor. I punched him twice in the face (DUMB) and just walked away, i never went back in a club after that, anyways i just hate theses places. Did i mention that i broke my hand, yes i did.
Going back to the Krav Maga - I took a class at the last MAP Meet and every technique was also found in karate. And I don't mean top secret hidden bunkai techniques etc - I mean in basic coloured belt formal line drill karate. This adds to my growing suspicion that all martial arts are exactly the same - the only difference is a few variations in training methodology. Athough, admittedly, these can make all the difference. I'm not sure if any other karate guys did the Krav class but I thought the knife and club defences were based on a basic age-uke form, exactly as you'd find it in a kata.
