Banke Shinobinoden - Some Questions

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Ozma, Nov 29, 2013.

  1. Ozma

    Ozma Valued Member

    Hi all,

    I am wanting to travel to Japan and train in Banke Shinobinoden - a form of Ninjutsu as taught by Jinichi Kawakami (now retired) and his student, Yasushi Kiyomoto.

    I am kind of throwing it out there with this thread, as i have no idea if anyone here has any experience with Banke Shinobinoden. Regardless, this is an art of which i want to dedicate my time and life to. Something of which i will be taking very seriously. As such, i am wondering if anyone here can please help me by answering some questions.

    I understand that i can email Banke Shinobinoden, but i would rather gather as much external knowledge as possible, before contacting the school itself.

    Here are some questions:

    - What is the address of the school/dojo itself?

    - How much does it cost to train in Banke Shinobinoden?

    - Do they still accept foreign students?

    - Must one speak fluent Japanese in order to train there? I understand one must have an interview with the head instructor, but i am unsure as to how much the language could affect one's chances.

    - Does the dojo accept inside students? Is there any accommodation at the school?

    I thank all those who have taken the time to peruse this thread.
  2. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Firstly I know very little about this school, but here goes:

    The School is here (roughly) :,134.494629&spn=14.79175,26.784668&t=m&z=6

    Cost? Irrelevant if you are willing to move to another country to learn from these people then you shouldn't worry about the cost, get a credit card. Before you do signup for life though I would recommend gaining a base in martial arts so you can properly assess them.

    Train Gaijin? Apparently so.

    Speak Japanese? Not necessary to learn a martial art in Japan to a certain level, but if you want to get into some of the deeper stuff that goes beyond the physical, such as strategy then not speaking it will be a hindrance.

    Inside student? Are you asking from a 'i'll get better training like this' or 'that will save money on rent' perspective?

    I highly recommend you give up your life, move to Japan and learn a martial art. You can go there on a tourist visa, apply for jobs teaching English which will pay you about 3-4M JPY per year and might include free or subsidized accommodation.

    Before you go, if you are serious about martial arts you need to obtain a shodan (blackbelt) in Judo. This is a hard thing to do, but relatively speaking easy to achieve. The value you will gain from this is that it will teach you if you have the strength of character to study a martial art. And furthermore it will give you 'the eyes of god'.

    The eyes of god are required to be able to see and know when you encounter a master that is genuine or if his skill and technique are fake. If you are a tough Judo Blackbelt and you meet with these masters in Banke Shinobi Den and they are able to impress you then you will know you have found true masters.

    If you are willing to move to another country and do this you owe it to yourself to know for sure that you are going to learn from a true master. Furthermore, if you come to a true master as someone who has achieved shodan already then you will have more merit in their eyes, and will often find a master that would not typically accept an inside student is willing to because they can see your dedication and potential.
  3. Ozma

    Ozma Valued Member

    Dear mattt,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to answer these important questions!!! :)

    Good points on the costs and assessment of the school.

    Thanks for commenting on the language aspect. I don't speak much Japanese. Sounds like it will have to be a focal point before heading over.

    In regards to being an inside student, i was generally asking from not only the perspectives you brought up, but others too. I thought being an inside student would provide more hands on time. I also thought it would aid in showing my commitment to the art, school and teachers. I would like to help out at the dojo wherever i can, in addition to the training and stuff.

    Thanks for the note on teaching English. Will definitely give it a think through. :)

    Thank you also, on your recommendations regarding Judo. It will be a while before i travel to Japan, and i do intend to gain a lot of experience in Japanese martial arts before hand.

    Thank you again for all the information and help!!! :)
  4. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    No probs. Also - I should add if you are not from an English (first language) country you may find it more difficult to find work as an English teacher.
  5. Ozma

    Ozma Valued Member

    Thanks again!!

    I'm Australian, so hopefully there won't be any hassles haha. :)

  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Wait. You just decided for no particular reason that you want to move over to a different country to train in an art you've never studied before?

    I wish you all the luck man, but how old are you? ;p
  7. Ozma

    Ozma Valued Member

    Nah, i've been contemplating it for a fair while now. I also plan to take my time on it, no need to rush into things lol. Not to mention that there are no Banke Shibobinoden representatives in my country, so travelling is really the only way to experience this art...

    I don't think there are any other styles i could study to prepare myself for Banke Shinobinoden though, in my area. Obviously i could be doing stuff with the Bujinkan or Genbukan, but the Bujinkan dojo near me is not too great, and the Genbukan dojo is a fair way away, and really over priced. I would prefer to travel and put my time and effort into something else (in this case, Banke Shinobinoden).

    Thanks for the well wishes. I assure you, i am well above the ninja wannabee age. :p

    I don't want to train in Banke Shinobinoden because of ninja fantasies. It is the history, the style and the stuff taught there which has grabbed my attention.

    Thanks. :)
  8. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Nothing wrong with doing it, and better when you are young. My reason to move to a different country (also Japan) was just because I thought it would be cool.

    It was.
  9. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Fair enough man, best of luck! I mean that. :)
  10. Ozma

    Ozma Valued Member

    Thanks again! :)
  11. hatsie

    hatsie Active Member Supporter

    Hold the bus! Even back up a bit. Banke what? I was under the impression with the exception of takamatsuden and a few snippets deeply buried in some koryu , no other authentic ninjutsu was around?

    I click on the web page and its fortune telling and koka/ iga stuff?!?

    Have I woke up in a parallel universe today? Moving to another country 'gung ho' never been, know no one ?, cool??? Yes it is, and great idea, i'd recommend it to anyone! But koka ninjutsu? Ok, where's jerremy beadle:.....:)
  12. Da Lurker

    Da Lurker Valued Member

    sorry about the video titles, these videos are not mine, that channel is not mine. I encountered these videos a few years ago on dailymotion, sadly it's now gone. good thing someone uploaded these to youtube for posterity:

    [ame=""]Jinichi Kawakami 1[/ame]

    [ame=""]Kawakami seminar '09[/ame]
  13. Nojon

    Nojon Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein

    The Gentleman from the Banke Shinobiden sight even came to the States a few years ago and gave a demo, might be a youtube vid of it. I remember some strange weapons demoed, big iron rings, and odd taijutsu.

    edit** just saw the vids above lol.. sorry im slow.
  14. hatsie

    hatsie Active Member Supporter

    Oh dear.......being in Japan will be amazing, have you thought about another martial art completely ? Aikido? Jujutsu or a real tight knit traditional koryu? ( check out dean winchesters links!)so much choice!

    Seems my instinct is confirmed, this school is likely a 'rebirth' of arts that did exist and do have much history, but the people teaching it now LIKELY have zero experiance and are probably ninja wannabes ! Steer well clear!

    But definatly follow your dream, I'd just choose something worth pursuing and not hogwash.
  15. Ozma

    Ozma Valued Member

    Thanks for the replies everyone.

    This is not something i will be rushing head first into. I will be taking my time and making choices wisely.

    Da Lurker, thank you for posting those videos. There seems to be some flaws in those techniques, and it may be a sign of things to come. But, everyone has their off days, and i am wondering if that was just a screw up rather than an indication of false teachings. Either way, it is probably fair to expect people of such experience to not screw up such techniques...

    Thank you, hatsie, for your input. I have contemplated traveling to Japan to study the arts you stated. It may even be worth traveling to train in other arts.

    Not sure on the rebirth thing. It is possible, considering not many know of Jinichi Kawakami's teacher or his life. I guess that throws Banke Shinobinoden into the same pile as the Bujinkan, Genbukan etc. A school which claims to have descended from specific arts, yet does not have solid proof showing such things.

    But yes you are right. It is probably worth traveling to train in a traditional art with a solid history.

    Thanks again.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  16. hatsie

    hatsie Active Member Supporter

    Sure good luck and enjoy! I just know, pardon my French, once you wake up and smell the coffee, you won't go within a hundred feet of these people! So no worries there.
    Is not so much an off day, or bit of missed timing, the whole thing from start to finish is absolute crap.

    Conversely the bujinkan and other kans, may have some iffy linage issues, but what is not in question is the skill of Takamatsu sensei, Hatsumi sensei or the ( Japanese) shihan, and mostly what they most certainly are not, is sitting in a boat next to these plonkers.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  17. peterc8455

    peterc8455 Valued Member

    Ok so I get that you don't want to train in the Bujinkan dojo near you because you feel with your experience that "it is not too great".

    However, your rationale for not training in the Genbukan dojo is that it is too far away and costs too much money; however you are contemplating moving to Japan to study with the Banke Shinobinoden folks?!

    What specific "stuff" taught there has grabbed your attention?
  18. Ozma

    Ozma Valued Member

    Yes, you read my reasons correctly haha. :)

    I am more interested in moving to Japan in order to study Banke Shinobinoden, rather than traveling a fair distance to pay a high fee in training with the Genbukan. Don't get me wrong, i have seriously contemplated making the trip back and forth to the Genbukan, but i thought it would probably be better to save up and prepare for a trip to study Banke Shinobinoden.

    I don't know if it is anything specific which has drawn me to the school. I think it is the system as a whole. The traditions, the systems, etc. It sounds pretty good. As to whether or not it is actually, literally good remains to be seen though.

  19. EWBell

    EWBell Valued Member

    If I had considered Genbukan in the country I lived in, but had the opportunity to go to Japan to live. Then I would investigate the costs of training in the Genbukan in Japan as well. Obviously, you are fee to train with whomever you want, provided they accept you as a student. At least within the Genbukan and Bujinkan there are traditions that are 100% legitimate and verfied historically. With Banke Shinobiden, I don't believe anything has been.
  20. Ozma

    Ozma Valued Member

    That's actually a good idea. The Genbukan has always struck me as a good school with excellent quality control. The Genbukan dojo i was looking at was a dead serious place with very strict rules. It was something which really appealed to me. The Bujinkan close-by however, is pretty laid back and not so serious. Both are great organisations overall though, in my opinion.


    I do believe that some organisations in Japan have accepted Jinichi Kawakami and his teachings as authentic, but that is still in some doubt, considering there hasn't been any independent research conducted to my knowledge.

    Thank you for your comment. I will look into the cost of Genbukan training in Japan. Might be worth properly checking out the closest Genbukan dojo to me also.

    Thanks again.

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