Backhold

Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts' started by Tommy-2guns..., Jul 23, 2006.

  1. Tommy-2guns...

    Tommy-2guns... southpaw glassjaw

    heyloo there, being a man of scottish decent i was wondeirng what people on here know of backhold as a wrestling style, i have looked into and im wondering if it has any application into a real self defence situation? i know its just a sport used to build strength etc etc but i just wonder how it could be used, as i assume all wrestling has its roots in combat application.

    i am mainly a pugilist however i figure i should look into my native art, the techniques from what i can gather are simple however if anyone would like to share with me a few examples that would be much appreciated.


    i am interested in combining my boxing training with native wrestling styles as i am feeling less and less interested in eastern martial arts(however the culture i love).


    anyway, any wrestlers out there wan to give me their views/experiences?

    regards

    Tommy
     
  2. Louie

    Louie STUNT DAD Supporter

    Hi Tommy

    I've took a few Backhold lessons in Glasgow, and been thrown around by youngsters training for the Highland Games circuit. The answer is yes, it did/does have practical applications and like Asian arts the same trips, kicks and leg locks can be found in Highland dance!!! Particularly in an old dance I've been researching called the dirk dance.

    Like many of the other traditional western styles I assume that the hold in Backhold was a method of entrapping the arms of a weapon/shield weilding man. With his sword-arm trapped you could then sweep, trip, lock his leg or throw him.

    regards

    Louie

     

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  3. Tommy-2guns...

    Tommy-2guns... southpaw glassjaw

    hey louie, thanks for that info, do you possibly know where i may go about learning the backhold style of wrestling? are there many techniques to master? do you know fo any sources where i can see the techniques,

    i know of strokes ier:- sweeps,cross buttock(similar to o-goshi i assume), back heel, and lifting with the thigh, what else is there??


    i see what you mean about the highland dance, i guess they do look verry similar, out fo interested, why did techniques need to be hidden in a dance form?


    anymore info would be amazing


    also the backhold grip, is it inside or outside of the arms, the pictures ive seen are inside but i imadgine to lock up a armed man you would need to be on the outside,applying pressure to push the arms to the body in a bearhug type fasion. but i have no clue on this, any thoughts?

    a programe i watched on a viking long boat race between oxford and cambridge uni showed them going to a viking reenactment centre where they learned glima, however they did not use the belt and had a backhold grip instead, is this common in glima as i have not seen it mentioned without a belt apart from that programme


    are the backhold techniques meant to cause enough damadge from the throw to avoid groundfighting? as i see little in the way of groundfighting in celtic style wrestling.

    im going to begin researching this as it has interested me greatly, so any bit of into you have would be amaizng, or anybody you know you could pass me onto that would also be great.


    regards

    Tommy
     
  4. acrux

    acrux vi et animo

    Tommy

    Don't know if this can help but was back-hacking Louies thread on walking stick manual & stumpled across this link on old Norfolk Wrestling, may be of some interest anyway.

    http://www.the-exiles.org/manual/norfwres/norfwres.htm

    "THE CELEBRATED GAME CHICKEN" you just got to love the the old sense of humour they had in those days.

    Regards acrux
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2006
  5. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    nice one acrux thanks :)
     
  6. Louie

    Louie STUNT DAD Supporter

    Hi Tommy...
    See the Scottish Wrestling Bond for additional info
    http://www.scotwrestle.co.uk/

    Glasgow's your best bet, the club there is run by Willie Baxter.
    Backhold can be seen at most Highland Games.
    Because it's now competative techniques are limited,but there is evidence that more aggressive techniques were used in times past. A Highland chief revelled in telling the story of his fight with one of Cromwell's soldiers, they went to ground, grappling and the chief ended up biting out his opponents windpipe!!!!

    From what I can remember the grip is one arm inside & the other outside this would prevent the sword-arm moving.

    The techniques would have been practiced around the fire, eventually becoming rigid dance forms (similar to Indonesian Silat Jurus), in modern times the moves have become dance steps and the practical elements are forgotten.

    For example an old Scottish (Skye) Dance in which only the tune still exists was performed to stickfighting it's called "I will break your head for you"
    And the Dirk Dance is performed with a dirk dagger and looks very much like a weapon kata.

    Louie

    Attached picture is of me performing the Dirk Dance
     

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    Last edited: Jul 25, 2006
  7. acrux

    acrux vi et animo

    Any chance of a video
     
  8. Tommy-2guns...

    Tommy-2guns... southpaw glassjaw

    ahhh after looking up the backhold...well, hold. it seems applicable for it lock up an opponents weapon arm provided they are thrown quickly,as such being disarmed or injured..perhaps killed depending on what they have been thrown onto and how fast.


    are hypes lifting the opponent with your thigh into the air for them to be dropped? im also having troubkle figuring out whjat twists and hanks are?

    i am aware of backheels and cross buttock throws, they seem verry similar to judo throws in application i beleive,also inner hooks as inside reaps and strokes as sweeps.

    i am loking forward to practicing this style, next time i assist in teaching our corss training class, i may present this style as a warm up when i have more information and have trained it perosnally.

    i love the apparant simplicity of the style and having tried out my interpretations of the techniques find them verry effective for someone of my build.

    any more reasearch or tips from anybody would be highly appreciated :)


    regards


    Tommy
     
  9. Louie

    Louie STUNT DAD Supporter

    Vid

    Hi Acrux
    If I ever organise one I'll let you know :)

    Lou
     
  10. lendri

    lendri New Member

    Hey Louie,

    Any idea where a guy could find that "I will break your head" tune? Either notation or a recording?
     
  11. Louie

    Louie STUNT DAD Supporter

    stickfightin' Tune

    'Skyedance' a CD by Alasdair Fraser & Paul Machlis contains a compilation of traditional gaelic folk tunes, this one is among them.

    louie
     

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