I'm paticularly intrested in how thier multiple opponent system looks, I know they have a video clip on thier site but for some reason I'm having difficulty downloading it.
Hi Crucible...I have been training with the Atienza brothers for a while now. I have 20 years total martial arts experience. I highly recommend training with them. Their movment is amazing and they can realistically apply everything they teach. I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have. gumagalang
Hi, I've had chance to attend some of the seminars that the Atienza brothers have held. One great one was the special weapons. In that one, we touched a little bit on the multiple attackers scenarios. I thought the concepts were great & what was cool was that we actually did it & they worked. I don't think I can really explain more b/c I only attended the seminars so far. As for the Atienza brothers, they use all the stuff that they teach and they are fast! The video clips might have to be viewed thru Quicktime. Usually they say which one you need to view with - QT or Mediaplayer. Jack
I've known Guro Carl and his brothers for a few years now. They're excellent and they really know their stuff. Multiple opponent stuff - specifically group vs. group - is their specialty. They grew up in a rough area and, from what I understand, they often had to fight in this setting - the Atienza brothers/friends vs. a group of attackers and it often involved various weapons - chains, pipes, bats, whatever people could get their hands on. If you have a chance to train with them, I'd highly recommend it. Also, they've got a DVD for sale on their website at http://atienzakali.com - this would provide a great intro to them Mike
I haven't seen much - but from what I HAVE seen I'd train with them at the drop of a hat if the opportunity presented itself.
Kablade, can you give us a sense of the atienza system and what it looks like in application? Thanks!
Atienza Kali is a reality based system. All students are taught from the beginning about what realistic combat means. What will and what wont work on the street. Students start with defenses from "unskilled" attackers and work up. The brothers have a very simple and clear teaching method that make the concepts easy to grasp. Using teaching techniques such as hourglass , ADPs, and blade simulator, the Guros slowly increase the difficulty of the attacks their students face. The concepts they use, translate to stick, knife, sword, projectiles, empty hands, and flexible weapons. After some of the basic movements and techniques have been presented, defense against multiple attackers begins. gumagalang
In AK we consider an "unskilled attacker" a person who carries a knife, but has no formal training on how to use it...professional robber..gang member..etc. The angles of attack and defense we would use would be the same as the ones against skilled attackers. The energy of the attack changes. The Atienza brothers have found that thats were training fails...most people are used to being fed slow formal knife attacks...its the pure energy of a real life encounter that they are not prepared for. As for a typical reponse to an attack.....the attacker is attempting to straight stab to my abdomen...offline the point of attack with my forearm and jab the eye in ONE count...get control behind the attackers elbow and lock and kill or throw and kill from there. gumagalang
no formal training Problem is, as Marc MacYoung has stated, the "guys with no formal training" are the most deadly on the street. As MacYoung has stated, "the only real knife fighting experts are either: a. dead, or b. in prison. To really be a true knife fighter, you have to have fought for real [that is why kali black belts sometimes get killed in bars by dudes who have no formal training. On the street, I would much rather face someone with "formal training" in knife fighting, than the dude that has "no formal training", who is, however, much, much more dangerous. Sorry if this is a "bummer", but I am afraid it is true. I am not trying to "dis" anyone's skills. I just think, guys who don't study are the ones with sloppy technique, but they are more dangerous, because they don't care.
Greetings! I would just like to throw my two cents in regarding "unskilled attackers". Atienza Kali definitely agrees that unskilled attackers are dangerous. One only has to view the news to see that people with no formal training have killed. However, there are also examples of skilled martial artists defeating a non-martial arts attacker armed with a knife. And to say that an unskilled attacker is unbeatable would be a gross mistatement- they can be beaten. As for a true knife fighter being either dead or in jail- I don't agree there. There are many skilled knife fighters out there; they need no mention. To give you a brief background of myself, I have been an Atienza Kali practitioner for over 11 years. However, before that I was an unskilled person. And when I met my instructor, I attacked him with everything I had... moves I've used in the streets & just going wild. He stopped me cold each time and from then on I wanted to learn. Again, I agree that the unskilled attacker is dangerous,however, I rather train & be prepared. It is Atienza Kali's view that anyone (with or without a knife) should be considered dangerous. Train Hard! Guro L. Manalo Pangalawang Mataas na Mandirigma (Level 2 Instructor) Atienza Kali
Awsome, sounds similar to REDZONE and STAB, stuff can't wait to see it. By the way since I mentitioned them can anybody give me a comparision to those two methods and Atienza Kali?
Knife experts What Marc MacYoung meant was, to be a real knife fighter, you have to have been in a real knife fight. How many real knife fights have you been in, in which the other guy was really trying to stab you with a real knife ? Sure, I have trained with dummy knives. In krav maga class, we once put red lipstick on dulled steel knives and then "fought". But calling myself a real knife fighter after that would be ludicrous. No real blade, no real stress and adrenaline. I have been in real street fights, and I can tell you, it is a whole different animal than sparring. The stakes are MUCH higher, and the stress is therefore much worse. You have to fight through adrenaline. Your sense of time is destroyed (speeds up or slows down), you get tunnel vision, etc. Your body goes stiff. MacYoung's point is: real knife fighters are dead or in prison because the only way to get good is to hurt or kill someone, and how many of us have done that, or are willing to ? How do you know your knife techniques will work for real ? There is no way of knowing, unless you stab someone. Also, I am deeply suspicious of people who teach kali and then call themselves after the names of vicious animals, as I feel that this is empty machismo. Sorry, but it just is. Kali is fun and I do it myself, but I cannot call myself a knife fighter. Just as I can't call myself a "gunfighter" even though I own several handguns and shoot regularly. A real gunfight is just so different than what I do, and there is no way to get experience without risking being killed. Simunitions also don't count. Of course it can be done (at great personal risk) - a kali expert could beat an experienced knife fighter. But real knife fighters like Marc MacYoung "spent most of my time retreating, or running away". "Entering" into a knife fight will get you killed. I have a green belt in krav maga, but I know that if I ever used it on the street against a guy with a knife, I would probably end up dead or cut bad. As they say: "in a knife fight, winners drip, losers gush". Even "knife experts" like Richard Ryan, Steve Tarrani, Ron Belicki, Vunak, etc. etc. would run in a real fight, and they admit it. The best thing against a dude with a knife is: Nike jogging shoes - to run away, or a Glock, loaded with hydroshocks. I don't mean this as a "dis" on anyone, or anyone's sytle. I practice kali myself, and love it, and it would be useful in a real fight, and it builds coordination and the attributes you might need in a fight. I just have serious doubts about some of the claims made at times, and I think, especially in terms of "knife fighting" (it really should be called "knife ambushes"), serious doubt is justified.
Absolutely, and this comes from a guy who has been in real knife fights, Iv'e been lucky I have dripped. Well said! Pat O'Malley
cops Where I live (U.S.), the standard police response to a knife threat is to shoot the knife wielder. I know that in Germany it is the same, as I lived there. There is a reason for that: knives are "that dangerous". The good news is, in our hands, they are also that dangerous. I have seen 1 guy deter 4 guys from an impending attack by drawing a blade. In some martial arts, it is known as the "renegotiation point" (the bad guy has to redecide if it is that much fun still to attack you). I also have a DVD at home, and on it, a U.S. Navy Seal states: "The more I know about knives, the more I respect them and fear them".
I once worte a book on the subject ("At the sharp end, a guide to self protection against edged weapons"), and I am in the procees of re-wirting it (spelling crap and pictures pony), all of this based on personal expeariance and I could not agree with you more. It is better to be trained in REAL knife fighting than not to be train at all as long as you realise that to be in a knife fight means that there is a dam good chance you will not see the end of the fight. All the best Pat
If Yoda says its ok, can you let us know when your book is done and where to pick it up? Whats your book cover?
Growing up we saw many instances of blade on blade violence were the participants never ran away... We've known people, personally, that were in some of the craziest blade violence and came out fine....and successfully fought off attackers. "to be a real knife fighter, you have to have been in a real knife fight" ...you're absolutely right. "... the only way to get good is to hurt or kill someone" ...you're absolutely right. Carl Atienza Atienza Kali
