As a TS woman do I stand a chance against men?

I think interest was the wrong word to use...respect maybe? I was trying to get across how disparaging many men are of women's sporting achievements even when the women in question far outstrip any athletic prowess they personally can achieve. Women may not be "interested" in women's sport but I don't think that moves into open dislike or mocking (as you see on any article or story on women's sport).

 

Naming exactly which biomarkers would be appropriate to grade performance tiers is above my pay grade, but I would think it would take more than just testosterone.

Cheating is already endemic in sport. I don't know that this would make it any more prevalent.

 

My experience does not support that assertion. I wouldn't make an assumption about it based on anecdotal evidence.

 

If anyone is interested, this R4 interview covers most of the things we're discussing....

 

Which would then increase the cost, infrastructure, inconvenience, etc.

"And now we have the Olympic 100 meters final for people who have proportionally shorter legs followed by the world's strongest (ish) person competition for people that don't have the genetic mutation Eddie Hall has for packing on muscle mass"...

Aye. One reason why I don't watch or really follow any. I keep up on what's happening in MMA, grappling and Boxing but only from a curiosity and technical stand point. Don't care about the actual results.

 

Get out of here with your actual information and nuance. I like pointlessly shouting into the internet wind.

 

Yeah maybe. Just don't see many women making the "what's she doing out of the kitchen?", "yeah but can she make me a sandwich?" type of comments on female sporting achievements.

 

I for one didn't vote Brexit to be well informed........

It's political correctness gone mad.....


Sorry I think my new experience of agreeing occasionally with piers Morgan and jedward has affected me somewhat!

 

They manage to keep track of several performance factors for Paralympians.

 

Sure, the disparaging remarks might take on a different theme, but I don't see that as being any better.

 

Re combat sports and gender....


This is also in the news:

Trans women face potential women’s rugby ban over safety concerns

World Rugby could ban transgender women

 

Seems like another argument to divide athletes on criteria other than sex/gender, and that testosterone alone is not a reliable biomarker.

 

It's testosterone throughout puberty that's the issue, so people who transition after puberty have a physical strength advantage to people who transition pre puberty, but then the question arises, will that push people to transition before puberty, if so will that mean more people transition before having appropriate counseling, and will that mean more people who transition and regret that transition. It's a multifaceted situation, there are no simple correct answers.

One place to start would be to ask current phenotype female, athletes their view. Any changes should really involve the informed consent of the current participants.

 

I'm trying imagine what the other criteria might actually be?
Other hormone levels for sure.
There are certain genetic factors? Like the Eddie Hall one mentioned earlier? Think there's one for ATP/energy usage too?
Michael Mosely did a programme where he found he was genetically predisposed to be an excercise "non-responder" (can't remember the details). I want to be in the Olympics for exercise non responders!
Bone density, muscle/fat ratio, hip/shoulder ratio, wrist circumference?

Let's be honest...given the width and depth of human difference not many markers are 100 reliable are they?

 

Wait - who is letting kids enter reassignment treatment without proper counselling, just so that they might gain an advantage in sports?

 

Obviously a somewhat arbitrary line has to be drawn somewhere, but we can make it a lot less arbitrary than it is already (just listening to that radio 4 programme where the ruling on Caster Semenya was described as arbitrary by the very body that ruled it).

^^^ That doesn't sound right, does it?

 

I can imagine having the contents of my pants and genome the subject of constant scrutiny and public ridicule could be quite damaging personally.

 

Her success and identity were tied to her being a great female athlete, learning your genetically male, which isnt your own identity and having it publicised, and used as a reason to make your job more difficult must be damaging.

But I can also see why that matters doping wise.

 

Again, skin colour is a phenotype. Would it have been right for white athletes to be given the chance of informed consent before allowing black athletes to compete against them? Seeing as in many events, belonging to a certain haplogroup can confer considerable advantages.

 

We don't know that she is genetically male though, do we?

I thought the specifics of testing were still confidential.