Article: Do U.K. Gun Laws Curb Crimes?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Nevada_MO_Guy, Dec 5, 2005.

  1. Nevada_MO_Guy

    Nevada_MO_Guy Missouri_Karate_Guy

    ILA Report: Latest legislative news from insie the NRA Institute for Legislative Action.

    Do U.K. Gun Laws Curb Crimes? Even the United Nations Says "No!"

    With all the gun control laws passed in the United Kingdom, some people -- NRA members not included -- might be surprised by the findings of a recent U.N. report on criminal violence in developed countries.

    That report found that Scotland is the most dangerous country in the developed world, followed closedly by England and Wales. The study, based on telephone interviews with victims of crime in 21 countries, found that more than 2,000 Scots are attacked every week, 10 times the number found in official police reports. The study, which excluded homicides, found Scots were nearly three times more likely to be assaulted than Americans. England and Wales had double the American assault rate.

    The study also found that while crime in much of the developed world has increased since 1988, in America it has gone down. It is no surprise that in this same period the United Kingdom, like Canada and Australia, has passed sweeping anti-gun laws.

    Gun ban activists and governments around the world will likely try to use this report as an excuse to impose even more restrictions on the lawful ownership of firearms (in Scotland, knives are the new target). Ownership of firearms by law-abiding citizens is a clear and unambiguous deterrent to thugs and criminals. The result of strict gun laws in Australia, Canada, England and Scotland is starkly clear: Taking away the tools of self-defense from honest people means more violent crime.

    The above article from AmericanHunter magazine, December 2005
     
  2. Moony

    Moony Angry Womble

    Hmmmm.......this sounds teribbly bias to owning a gun really.

    Although i'm not scottis i've been there a few times simce 1988 and i know a few scottish peaopl, plus it's not *that* far away. It doesn't strike me that the situation is as dire as that report makes out, although i could be wrong....

    Moony
     
  3. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    sigh. the sad thing about this article is that people are so incredibly stupid they will still try and use it as some kind of evidence. last i heard, gunshots were usually pretty fatal. generally if you SHOOT SOMEONE its with the intent that they die.

    so basically what this study shows is that when people cant get guns they use other less lethal weapons in disputes, resulting in less deaths. cool. what was the NRAs point with this again?
     
  4. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Just because it's illegal to own a gun it doesn't mean that there are no guns around.
    I could go 5 minutes up the road and be surrounded by people with handguns! :eek:
     
  5. JayKayD

    JayKayD Meet my friend PAIN!

    The difference is our assaults aren't fatal. How about they compare the amount of people that die in crimes over here with the US. Maybe the reason we report more assaults is because we're around to talk about it after the event.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2005
  6. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    how would UK Gun Laws curb knife crime in Glasgow, yet more right wing propaganda courtesy of gun toting america
     
  7. Pacificshore

    Pacificshore Hit n RUN!

    Oh no an article regarding the UK's gun laws and how they don't work, and all of a sudden it's generated by Right-wing America....Geez, but its okay to post an article explaining why America is the way it is.....what a waste of young minded individuals without any life experience :rolleyes:
     
  8. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    Yeah, what with all the rampant shootings that happen here in Brittain :D

    1.4 - 5.7 (Homicides, not just gun related, 3.7 - 0.11 is the rate for hand gun homicides :D )

    Edit: Err, from the header to that article I got the impression it was written by part of the NRA, isn't that actually quite a right wing organisation? Plus the way it's written is hardly impartial is it now?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2005
  9. JayKayD

    JayKayD Meet my friend PAIN!

    Wait wait wait, i just noticed this;

    AAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

    *edit* oh wait, Ikken already pointed it out. Oh well it was still funny to me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2005
  10. jonmonk

    jonmonk New Member

    Great so let's all go out and get guns. That way we can have shootings instead of assaults.

    I think it's sad that there are people living in developed countries who can only feel safe if they are carrying a gun.
     
  11. baubin2

    baubin2 New Member

    As your Brit cohort so inelegantly pointed out, gun bans don't prevent criminals from getting guns. They prevent law-abiding citizens from getting guns. So you're glad that twice as many people are victims of crime in the U.K. as opposed to the U.S.? Fine. Don't come crying to me when you get robbed by some 14 year old chav, who only had the guts to do it because he knew the chances of him actually getting punished for it were slim to nil.
     
  12. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

    America is pretty safe. Gun toting America has the lowest crime rate in 20 years and getting lower. Most of the gun violence in America are with guns that are already illegal. I love it when an illegal gun is used in a crime sparks more laws to make the same gun more illegal than it was beforehand. :woo:
     
  13. jonmonk

    jonmonk New Member

    No, but I'd be glad if the government of my country had the foresight to try to address the cause of violent crime rather than arm everyone to the teeth and run the risk of turning the streets into a war zone.

    The UK ain't perfect by a long shot but IMO giving people access to guns simply adds fuel to the fire. I personally think that a much more positive response would be to find out why the crime is there in the first place and deal with that.

    Ok I won't :)
     
  14. baubin2

    baubin2 New Member

    I know, isn't it terrible? To think that maybe the vast difference in crime rates in countries that allow conceal carry weapons as opposed to countries that ban gun ownership might be evidence of something?

    Well, no, actually. You can fire into the air as a threat. You can shoot to disable instead of kill. And if a robber hears you loading a shotgun (very distinctive sound) when he is in the process of nicking your things, chances are he will get the message and leave without you having to shoot him to accomplish it.

    Is that what you call an assult? A dispute?

    Yes... and twice to three times as many robberies, assualts...

    In an altercation, there are two people who can die. The criminal, and the law-abiding citizen. If the criminal dies, well quite frankly, who cares? I still do not understand the "Oh, that poor criminal!" mentality that seems to exist in the UK. Are you really going to feel sorry for some jerk who lives by preying off law-abiding citizens? And if it's the law-abiding citizen that dies, well then, your gun bans really didn't help you much now, did they?

    P.S. Yes ikken, I know you're from NZ. But the article deals with the UK.
     
  15. 2E0WHN

    2E0WHN Homebrew for idiots

    As said, you can walk into an area and be surrounded by guns as Bassai pointed out. The removal of guns was down to two things. First Hungerford in southern England. A man walks down the high street shooting people with an assault rifle. Soon after, assault rifles are banned. That happened in the mid 80's.

    Next Dunblaine, Scotland 1996. A scout leader walks into a primary school and starts to kill children and teachers. The reason is that he tought the community was talking about him abusing children. Fact was, he was not talked about.

    Both had psychological problems. They made there point by killing with guns. Now all guns are banned with the exception of .22 for marksmanship, the gun crime has risen dramatically since 1997. Before the ban on guns, gun crime was minimal. Now the ban is enforcing the theory that to have a shooter is cool and comes with respect. Would you disrespect someone with a firearm?

    As for the report, that is very old news. That was being reported on BBC Scotland in March this year. America is very much behind the times on that. Yes you are more likely to be mugged in Scotland. But as my family lives in the worst unemployment blackspot in the whole of Europe, crime there in Dumfriesshire, south west Scotland is just the occasional drunk and wife beating.

    The main reason for crime is not guns, knives or just some bad people, it is economics and employment. Glasgow, Edingburgh, Perth is getting rich, while Dumfries and Galloway is going stale. The pits have closed. 75% of people in my family area claim incapacity benefit. Jobs are hard to come by if nigh impossable. One person had to drive 50 miles one way to work. He barely was able to have money for fuel for the car, let alone feed himself. But in that area, crime is low, drugs are high. Everyone knows the drug dealers and users, but no one is prepared to go out and get a gun to defend their petty property for their own posessions.

    Guns are banned due to idiots using them to kill, not due to the fact that crime is made more dangerous by them. If America thinks that, then you are mistaken about our country.
     
  16. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Ok,

    I'll throw some statistics out here.

    UK 01/02

    23 Firearm related deaths.
    Population of UK = 60m
    1 gun death per 2608700 people

    US 2003
    FBI estimated that 67% of the 16503 murders in 2003 were committed with firearms.

    .67*16503=11057 gun related murders
    Population of US = 300m
    1 death per 27132 people.

    So to summarise:

    UK 1/2608700
    US 1/27132

    I know where I feel safer
     
  17. Gary

    Gary Vs The Irresistible Farce Supporter

    The UK also has one of the lowest homicide rates in the world. I would never attribute this to any single factor. Racial assaults for example, have drastically increased in the UK after the conflicts in the middle east, and these will have been included in the survey.
     
  18. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I dont believe that the ban has created a problem, imagine if guns could be bought off the shelf, every gang member would have one, as it stands at the moment, they are pretty rare.
     
  19. thepunisher

    thepunisher Banned Banned

    I think what some ppl here unhappy with regular citizens having availability with guns fail to point out are the ridiculous shootings at high schools in america. Here, since no one can have easy access to a shotgun/rifle/pistol easily we don't have angry students walking into a high school shooting at innocent students/teachers and so adding to the homicide rate. And sorry, you can't call such a situation an assault that you have to defend yourself from, can you ?

    Yes, its true even with gun laws that prohibit regular citizens to get guns its still easy to get a gun illegally but the matter of the fact is that having a gun, period, is a dangerous thing, whether you intend to defend yourself with it or someone plans to rob you with it. Imagine everyone here had a rifle freely aviable to him, you could shoot someone just because you "think he/she is going to rob you. " Also a very easy way (see above)to vent your anger at someone. Just get a gun and shoot whoever is responsible in your eyes. Problem solved !

    A gun might make you feel safe. But a gun might also make you feel superior. But the thing is, we aren't in the "Wild West" anymore and whether England is worse concerning the assault rate makes no difference. This isn't "Judge Dredd"...and take the law onto your own hands. Whether you have a gun or not.

    Christian
     
  20. baubin2

    baubin2 New Member

    This is what background checks are for. If you've committed a crime, you cannot "just buy a gun off the shelf" because the background check would come back negative and the owner would not legally be allowed to sell the gun to you.
     

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