Arnold has another video out about strength

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Dead_pool, Mar 7, 2023.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Matt Walsh isn't your run-of-the-mill reactionary conservative, he's a full-blooded theocrat. The Handmaid's Tale isn't dystopian fiction to him, it's aspirational entertainment.

    He takes the Bible seriously when it says women are men's property. Anything that might destabilise strict gender roles is a threat to him.

    Jordan Peterson was recently saying that women were better protected against rape when they were the property of men, because men are more likely to seek vengeance for a crime against their property than out of love for an equal. Apparently this acted as a better deterrent than rape being a crime against the victim.

    They reveal so much about their twisted inner selves whenever they open their mouths. It is truly ugly.
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  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I was amused recently to see John Cleese horrify a number of his followers by defending drag story hours. I wonder how cognisant he is that a large proportion of his fellow anti-woke culture warriors aren't pro freedom of expression at all.

    He tweeted:
    Here's a pantomime dame from 1899:
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  3. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Some of the saddest stuff I'm seeing is how the likes of Peterson and Tate (shudders) have permeated general discourse.
    With seemingly reasonable people sharing them and what they say.
    And as far as I can see it's because they can't get their heads around the concept of transgender people, are annoyed that modern men don't dress like they are in the Peaky Blinders and the current generation isn't as "tough" as they are.
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  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Kids these days!

    "Whither are the manly vigour and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt…”

    Letter in Town and Country magazine republished in Paris Fashion: A Cultural History
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  5. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

  6. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    It amazes me that these days even a thread about hatred being a bad thing..... can devolve into arguments and..well... a bit of hatred

    Had enough for awhile.......TTFN
  7. YoshiroShin

    YoshiroShin Valued Member

    ^^^ Sees people point out far right wing political aggression against marginalized people citing specific cases and calls it "hate", merely repeating nothing more than what they said before without anything actually substantiating it other than saying "you see? you're the same!"

    I (and probably a lot of others here) don't see your point as even being an argument, much less having any validity. It is, however, dismissive, reductionist, and kinda sad too. Unless you think that people disagreeing with you in particular = hate?

    I'm looking forward to seeing you tell the victims of attacks on, say, abortion clinics that they're being hateful for pointing out the political ideologies that make the situation worse.

    40 years of attacks on abortion clinics, mapped

    Or maybe the families of the victims of shootings like this:

    Police have identified the 5 people killed in Colorado Springs LGBTQ club shooting | CNN


    "Between 1994 and 2020, there were 893 terrorist attacks and plots in the United States. Overall, right-wing terrorists perpetrated the majority—57 percent—of all attacks and plots during this period, compared to 25 percent committed by left-wing terrorists, 15 percent by religious terrorists, 3 percent by ethnonationalists, and 0.7 percent by terrorists with other motives."

    "Of these three ideologies, most prior research has contrasted those committed to right-wing and left-wing causes. Much of this research suggests that compared to left-wing extremists, right-wing extremists may be more likely to engage in politically motivated violence. In comparison to left-wing supporters, right-wing individuals are more often characterized by closed-mindedness and dogmatism (9) and a heightened need for order, structure, and cognitive closure (5). Because such characteristics have been found to increase in-group bias and lead to greater out-group hostility (10), violence for a cause may be more likely among proponents of right-wing ideologies. In contrast, in comparison to their right-wing counterparts, left-wing individuals score higher on openness to new experiences, cognitive complexity, and tolerance of uncertainty (5). They are also less likely to support social dominance (11), which could lead to their overall lower likelihood to use violence against adversaries. In line with this reasoning, some studies have demonstrated an empathy gap between liberal and conservative individuals (12)."

    Right-Wing Extremists Were Responsible For All 25 Extremist-Related Murders In 2022

    Yahoo is part of the Yahoo family of brands

    "Asked about the effects of right-wing media reports and disinformation campaigns, Prins said, 'It’s certainly the case that right-wing media like Fox News have spread stories that inflame anger in individuals that already think the government is acting in some wrong way.'

    He mentioned the response by right-wing groups to a National Guard exercise in Texas carried out by the Obama administration. The right-wing media portrayed this exercise as an attempt by the president to establish martial law and start taking over the United States. The governor of Texas gave legitimacy to the conspiracy theory “that spread like wildfire through the right-wing media” by deploying the Texas National Guard to monitor the exercise."

    The radicalization of white Americans

    Okay, well if you post again, feel free to actually try making a point or even participate in the conversation that's being had.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2023
  8. YoshiroShin

    YoshiroShin Valued Member

    P.S. The best thing about you using this in this context implies that you also believe that if the Jews had just ignored the Nazis, they would've been happier and that that's what really matters in the end. o_O
  9. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    You really have no clue as to what the video, the OP posted, is talking about do you... and that is we say is that
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I think it's quite clear. Arnie believes no-one is beyond redemption. It's a noble ideal.

    In the meantime, what do you do about those people deliberately seeding hate, conning millions into hating others based on race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or gender?

    There is no way to both-sides that debate. Only one political party in the US is passing legislation that targets people based on these characteristics. That's just a fact.

    Do you really think Arnie's message is to wait until all those politicians and pundits who spread hate see his video and everything will be fine?

    I would bet money Arnie would agree with the famous poem:

    First they came for the Communists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Communist

    Then they came for the Socialists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Socialist

    Then they came for the trade unionists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a trade unionist

    Then they came for the Jews
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Jew

    Then they came for me
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me

    The message of the video is not that we all have to get along. It's very clearly about trying to dissuade people from hating others based on race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or gender, for scapegoating others and believing in bigoted conspiracy theories.

    At no point did he say you shouldn't call out and resist individuals, organizations, and political parties that spread such hate. That would be a weird lesson to bring home from Auschwitz.
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  11. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    And neither am I. The problem is that when you say anything you are automatically labeled as a member of the "other side" which happens to be whatever side the guy you are taking to is not on.

    All I said, and it seems to be hard to get and not pick political sides (by the way, I am not a member of either). But hate is hate whether that be race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or gender, or political affiliation.

    You will never ever get anything done in this country, or any country if the various sides of the political coin are constantly fighting and blaming one another for all the problems in the world, still hate. And since we seem to like using Nazi references.... Nazis hated all the other political parties in Germany that were not Nazis and got rid of them..... and then the real horrific stuff started.... there is a whole lot people seem to forget about the rise of the Nazis that led to the holocaust.

    And now, I have really dedicated WAY to much time to this post, which is becoming political, and will only get worse. I abhor political conversations/arguments (all the same these days) because they never get anything accomplished..... no one debates or discusses politics anymore, they just dig in their heels, point fingers and hate the other side....

    I leave you all to your politics, I am truly out and have better things to do
  12. YoshiroShin

    YoshiroShin Valued Member

    You really have no idea how to form an argument do you? The statement you make here reads of that of a teenager, even though it doesn't seem like you are, so it's beneath you, I think, unless you really can't do better.

    I find your thoughts to be low-effort and your words hollow, cheap, and without much substance beyond that of mostly empty platitudes.
  13. YoshiroShin

    YoshiroShin Valued Member

    And when did this happen to you here? Like actually, what on Earth are you talking about?

    Okay so
    Definition of HATE

    To reduce everything that we've said up until now to just this and "hate" is, well, asinine, disingenuous, dismissive, reductionist, disrespectful to the very concept of discourse itself, and is beginning to reek of trolling.

    It kinda sounds like you're blaming us for having an opinion that isn't the same as yours actually, and then saying that we're partially to blame for right-wing violence.

    We're pointing out facts - if you're incapable of even establishing the coordinates of what the present situation is and the political forces involved are, you'll never be able to orient yourself to a solution, which is why you've presented no such solution. The best you came up with is a concern troll about how people who are victims of political violence pointing out that they're being attacked and killed and why that's happening is equivalent to those responsible for the incitement and actions of such events. You've not only disrespected us in this thread by your conduct multiple times here, you've disrespected the memories of the victims of the various shootings, bombings, and otherwise political violence in the US and around the world, but also to the victims of genocides such as Bosnia, Burma, various purges of communist regimes including the Stalin regime, and yes, the victims of the Holocaust.

    I'm disappointed in you, and I think you should be ashamed of your wilful ignorance. You seem to be only posting in this thread because you don't like the fact that we're, well, saying anything other than "both sides" and then shrugging.

    Okay, yeah, so you're basically saying that people pointing out right-wing violence are in the same spirit of, want the same things as, and will progress towards what the Nazis did. Again, what I said above applies directly to this as well, but for this statement I'll add "childish" to the assessment of what you're doing here.

    It's been going in a pretty straight line since the first page so I think your description of the trajectory is hyperbolic and is framed such that you can extricate yourself from it with some sort of sense of superiority, again completely dismissing anything most people have said in this thread.

    Really? Is that why you keep replying to this thread? o_O

    This is weird for you to say considering all you've said so far is that we're wrong and that we just need to let it all go, and then you came back to basically keep repeating it and refused to engage with basically anything that any of us has said.

    I figure you'll be back in a day or so, again, to add basically nothing to the conversation, again. :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2023
  14. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    And now for some levity.

    Conan the Barbarian (the movie) is basically about a young man who has his entire life genocidically erased by a warlord who becomes a savior savante to a legion of crazy armed religious cultists ready to murder their own families and friends. Spoiler alert, he gets his vengeance.

    I know every word of this movie by heart, but this musical parody I can actually sing pitch perfect impression. I do it all the time around the house.

    When I post, I try to capture a tone somewhere between Patrick Swayze and Arnold. Half Dalton, half Dutch.

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  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I haven't labelled you as anything. I'm discussing your points, not pointing fingers.

    There are big, undeniable differences between the two main parties in the US.

    There is a lot to criticise the Democratic party about, but they are not targeting legislation on demographic groups, they haven't been in contact with thugs and paramilitaries to intimidate elected officials into overturning an election, they do not have representatives intimating their political opposition are pigs that should be shot... I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.

    It is not hate to say these things are bad. It is condemning political actions, not tribalism for the sake of it.

    And who is it talking about radicals and degenerate perverts planning to harm "real" patriots? Sound familiar?

    Except we are talking about politics. How much more political can you get than legislation?

    If you ever come back to this thread, I would like to hear how you think people who sow division and legislate against demographic groups to stoke prejudice and hatred, who encourage violence and defend those who use it against their political opponents should be addressed.
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  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Far too many people would like to see them addressed as "Mr President". :(
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  17. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter


    Republicans aim to pass national ‘don’t say gay’ law
    House Republicans Are Already Voting On Anti-Abortion Bills As GOP Eyes Even More Restrictions
    States That Have Enacted Book Ban Laws: Book Censorship News, August 26, 2022

    This is 5 minutes of google searching legislation by both parties. I could post more if needed to make my point.

    Go on Xue, please post some anti-women, anti-free speech, anti LGBT+ rights legislation being pushed by the Democrats. Or post Pro-Democracy and minority legislation being proposed by Republicans....I am waiting.

    This isn't some theoretical discussion, this is a fight for our basic Civil rights for many of us. This is a fight against an ongoing coup attempt that is either being ourtright endorsed, or endorsed through silence and complicity, by a substantial part of the Republican party.

    I have discussions with people about the possibility of needing to flee our country if it becomes a dictatorship that is oppressing our basic rights! Something we all never imagined we would be discussing just a few years ago.

    So no, I am not going to pretend both parties are the same. I am not going to worry about hurting peoples feelings who don't like the facts being called out for what they are.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
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  18. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside


    Note to all, I'm done and as far as I am concerned everyone is missing my point and now Aaradia is even attacking me......the video is about Hate, no matter what political party, or side of whatever coin you are using....hate...........but is seems absolutely impossible these days to have anything close to a reasonable discussion that does not devolve and divide politically or right and left...... and by the way if one claims to not be using political parties, but yet uses right vs really playing with semantics there.... ironically I am currently feeling is being directed at me, more than I have encountered before here on MAP.....and I most certainly do not need to be logging on to a site to be attacked......... this has, based on my original post...gone WAAAAY off the rails....... apparently no one understands what the original video about Hate is you folks have a good day...... so revoir...再见 (Zàijiàn)..... B'Bye

    And last let me leave you with

    I will waste no more time here with this hatred and negativity..... I do honestly wish you all the best
  19. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Irony is posting something about Zen in an absolutely un-Zen post, man. I hope you see that when you reflect on it later. "Final post" stuff is for children.

    I'm pretty sure everyone here understands what the video was saying. I also think you're being a bit defensive with the "hatred and negativity" bit. I have seen none of that directed at you in this thread or any other.

    It's entirely possible you just don't understand what people are saying, and having phantom projections about being "attacked". It's called a persecution complex and it's fairly common in online forums. You are being histrionic.

    I mean, what's so wrong with saying "sorry, didn't mean to offend you" or "hey man, I don't understand, would you mind explaining?".

    Honestly if the Web needs less of anything, it's this style of melodramatic passive aggressive firebomb last post. It's not like MAP is a super active website, so there is no imaginary mob chasing you with pitchforks. Just a handful of people discussing a poignant Arnold Schwarzenegger bit.

    And since we are being frank, it's not like your posts were erudite or anything, but you don't seem to understand that Arnold was talking about far right wing extremism in the US, ie Nazis, American fascists, bigoted Trump supporters, etc. Left or right was not his point at all.

    Take care.
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  20. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Attacking you? Are you kidding me Xue? Expressing an opposing opinion about a position you took is NOT the same as attacking you. If one is going to post a political opinion, one must be prepared to deal with disagreement.

    I am strongly speaking out about the rise of Fascism in my country. And where it is coming from. I am strongly speaking out because silence equals complicity IMO. I will NEVER not speak up. You made a false equivalency. I pointed it out. To equate that to a personal attack is just really silly. And very inaccurate. It is very much one political party perpetrating this. I invited you to provide evidence otherwise, but you have decided to quit the discussion rather than provide it.

    Are you really trying to say that speaking up against hatred, fascism and bigotry is being hateful to the haters?

    But it is far easier to get all defensive, rather than post the evidence to back up what you are claiming, like I simply requested, and continue the conversation. Ah well.

    Mod Note: Anyone feeling personally attacked should report the specific point to the mod team. Personal attacks are not allowed on MAP. You are going to be required to point out specifically what is felt to be a personal attack though. If you report a mod, other mods and the owners will review it. No one is above the TOS on MAP. I have submitted this thread for the entire mod team to review.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
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