Arnold has another video out about strength

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Dead_pool, Mar 7, 2023.

  1. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Absolutely. I tried pointing out to some women that their own partners and spouses were more of a danger than some random transgender woman using a public toilet.
    But I think in many ways a man is not the right mouth piece to try and explain such things.
    Just comes across as mansplaining how their fears aren't valid.
    Frodocious and David Harrison like this.
  2. YoshiroShin

    YoshiroShin Valued Member

    David thank you for saying what you said. I was quickly able to tell that Dead_pool was trying to channel their biases and prejudices into "enlightened centrism" and concern trolling

    What do I mean by that?

    Urban Dictionary: Enlightened Centrist

    Urban Dictionary: concern-troll
    "In an argument (usually a political debate), a concern troll is someone who is on one side of the discussion, but pretends to be a supporter of the other side with 'concerns'. The idea behind this is that your opponents will take your arguments more seriously if they think you're an ally."

    Like I'm getting clear signs that they see transwomen as being men more than they see them as being women but they won't come out with it explicitly.

    I've underlined for emphasis; often times the data like what you cited, David, is easily accessible and right in front of our faces but people like this still have "concerns".

    Truly and honestly, it seems like they don't believe the safety of transpeople is as important as the safety of ciswomen. And like you said, if they really cared about women's safety in prisons, then why aren't they concerned about other factors such as prison guards? I just can't take them seriously anymore.

    And this is another thing I noticed right away as they didn't seem to be mindful at all of the dangers of sexual assault from ciswomen on to other people, especially in prisons, which again gives away that they're more operating on fear and prejudice against transpeople (in the face of the facts that you and I have had to point out) than they are concerned about the actual safety of ciswomen.

    P.S. Pre-empting: I don't want to see any DMs from Xue or Dead_pool.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2023
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That completely wasn't my point, yes everyone should be protected from sexual assault. And it needs a calm rational debate on how best to do that. Otherwise ideologues and hate mongers will use it as a wedge issue.
    Which is in no one's long term interest.
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Just a note general risk statistics don't trump individual risk statistics.

    Generally trans people are less likely to rape then the general population. So all's good.

    However if a individual has already been convicted of rape, then their risk of raping again increases.

    Putting them in jail with the population that most closely matches their victims, increases the risk of the raping again, but decreases their own risk of being victimised.

    The question is how do we balance these risks in the population that have already offended.

    Putting them with a population that may victimise them, is also not good.

    It's a tricky situation, that isn't helped by ignoring the issue.

    Or just call me transphobic for not wanting this to become a wedge issue.
  5. YoshiroShin

    YoshiroShin Valued Member

    Exactly; this is also why Republicans are working overtime to restrict voting rights. Restricting mail-in ballots, reducing the number of polling stations in predominantly black areas... Check out DeSantis in Florida using the police to intimidate people:

    Florida police cameras show August arrests for alleged voter fraud | CNN Politics

    "'She was twice told by the State of Florida and the local Supervisor of Elections, ‘Here’s your voter registration card. You are, as far as we’re concerned, legally eligible to vote.’ And so she voted and she was shocked when she was arrested.'

    'She was shocked and upset because she thought her rights had been restored by the amendment. She didn’t know any different. And the State of Florida, she believed, was telling her that she was eligible to vote. And now she’s had the rug pulled out from under her. She never would have voted if she knew that she was ineligible,' Rankin said."

    What amendment?

    "Republicans, Democrats and independents supported Amendment 4 and restoring voting rights to 1.4 million people last November. But SB 7066, designed to limit Amendment 4, passed this spring along party lines and effectively restricted the amendment’s scope to a fraction of the returning citizens it was meant to benefit."
    David Harrison likes this.
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Glad to hear it!

    It would seem to me that every sex offender entering prison should be assessed as to how they pose a risk to the general prison population, and plans to mitigate that risk put in place.

    I'm not seeing how gender would change that.
    aaradia, YoshiroShin and Mangosteen like this.
  7. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    I don't think its a fair comparison to compared "sexual" characteristics like sexual dimorphism to "racial" characteristics which, although they are both on a spectrum, "racial" characteristic have more difference within groups than between groups while "sexual" characteristics exist in 2 large peaks (which we generally define as male/female) with a trough between them (which we generally define as "intersex")

    People who fall on the female end of the spectrum of sexual characteristics have fair reason to fear people who fall in the male end of the spectrum.
    The secondary sexual characteristics like increase muscle mass, lower body fat, stronger jaws, thicker skulls, narrower bones in the waist and larger shoulder girdles means that males at the same weight as females will be far stronger.

    In defence of Deadpool - hes referenced a huge legal case thats been hyped by media in the UK about a rapist that happened to be trans and is being used as a nonsense TERF argument to block trans acceptance.

    In reality we need to ensure prisoners don't predate on each other but that would involve wider reform of a prison system to a rehabilitative system. In the meantime, separation based on primary and secondary sexual characteristics are a good way to do this. Separation by the cultural idea of gender (an unfortunate cultural idea in which women are preyed upon) is also probably a good idea so those who define themselves as "men" don't prey on those they see as "women".

    Id even advocate for a weight class segregated prison so smaller men aren't abused by other men.
    Frodocious and Dead_pool like this.
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Man it's not often someone says something that totally changes my perception of a situation.
    But damn if that does. Not even something I'd even considered.
    They already segregate based on violence level and category (afaik?) right?
  9. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Mate I'm just trying to incept Convictus FC
    Dead_pool likes this.
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It doesn't make sense to me that an obese pensioner in prison for fraud should be categorised as a high risk prisoner...
    YoshiroShin likes this.
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    We also shouldn't forget that physical size isn't the be-all-and-end-all of risk of predation.

    Last time I looked, men and women in same sex relationships were more likely to be victims of domestic violence than those in heterosexual relationships.
    YoshiroShin likes this.
  12. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    You're being silly. Of course we separate out on numerous intersecting characteristics to provide better care and rehabilitation...
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    ... and prison reform is exactly what we should be talking about, rather than where we put certain demographics into a system that is not safe for inmates.
    YoshiroShin and Mangosteen like this.
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I presumed your weight class comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, so was my reply.
    YoshiroShin and Mangosteen like this.
  15. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    This is heavily due to cultural factors - gay relationships don't have a long modern public history or many public depictions until 20 years ago so there's no role models or understanding of healthy gay relationships or even what marriage looks like if you're gay.

    Heck I would argue that the show "Future Man" does a better job of portraying what a healthy polyamorous brooding party reltionship looks like than most shows have approached a 1 on 1 Queer relationship.

    Also factor in the mental health conditions you'll develop in a world that isn't friendly to Queer people and that lack of family support.

    Also on the topic of domestic abuse, most forms of domestic abuse are mutual abuse so it makes things trickier and does necessarily translate to imprisoned populations.
    Dead_pool and David Harrison like this.
  16. YoshiroShin

    YoshiroShin Valued Member

  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Just thinking about this.

    While of course you are right, YoshiroShin was talking about how racists perceive people of colour, which is through a dimorphic lens.

    In the same way that racists view "others ", particularly people of African descent, through the prejudice of the colonial era, as savages and closer to beasts than people, so do transphobes view all trans women as predatory men using gender as a disguise.

    Look at how the conservative movement has labelled any discussion of LGBTQ+ issues in school as "grooming", or drag story hours as "indoctrination".

    It isn't a nuanced view we're talking about, it's very black and white (often literally).
    Mangosteen and YoshiroShin like this.
  18. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    I understand what your saying about the social construction of gender but biological males that have gone through puberty as males are more likely to be stronger than females. There is a reason for the fear.

    Saying that, it isn't a logical reason. Trans women are biological males but have rejected the gender role linked to their sex and shouldn't be treated the same way as males that believe in attitudes hyper/toxic masculinity.

    The same way you might be scared of the massive guy in you martial arts class on your first day is logical but a stereotype of large guys. He's probably the nicest guy in the class
  19. Grond

    Grond Valued Member


    The only thing missing from this video was the Atlantean Sword. Sometimes he has it out on his desk when he does these awe inspiring videos.

    This one was heavy enough without the Sword.

    Arnold speaks to gender discrimination after around 3 minutes in, by the way. The path of hate.
  20. YoshiroShin

    YoshiroShin Valued Member

    It's funny too because most accusations from the far right are really confessions.

    Take Matt Walsh who also pushes this line that is common, that drag is somehow sexualizing children or that gender affirming care is abuse, but then they'll argue for teen marriage and lowering the age of consent while preventing young women from having access to the knowledge to help protect them from sexual abuse in the first place.

    "Recently, Walsh has been helping lead a campaign against children’s hospitals providing gender-affirming care. On August 15, Walsh made the false, incendiary claim that these hospitals are “butchering, mutilating, and sterilizing their young patients.” The hospitals highlighted by Walsh and others have been inundated with violent threats — threats that the Daily Wire personality dismissed as a hoax before continuing his campaign.

    A review of Walsh’s commentary for The Matt and Crank Program reveals that the pundit has previously praised violent political action, saying that enacting change means that “you have to make people hurt. … Holding signs and yelling loudly will not make anyone hurt.”

    But then:
    "WALSH: That's my point, OK? So to all of a sudden act like this phenomenon of girls getting pregnant at that — at a young age — that we consider young, 16 or 17, to act like it's a new thing is ridiculous. It’s always been that way. … Girls between the ages of like 17 and 24 is when they're technically most fertile."

    What people like this really want is control over the sexuality of others, specifically of women. This is also where anti-choice and curtailing of access to contraceptive care come in as well. They want breeding vessels that will stay in the home and cook for them.

    P.S. Drag has always been around. Look up Jackie Gleason and Bob Hope, or many mainstream films from even before 2010. To paint all drag as being erotic and adult in nature is wilfully ignorant and, frankly, evil.


    Last edited: Mar 9, 2023
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