ArniSipaan/SipaLuan

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by wanlu99, Dec 16, 2005.

  1. Silentblade

    Silentblade Silent Death

    I don't want Wanlu to take it the wrong way, hey we have kicks in FMA too. It is just FMA weaponry is more emphasized in A/K/E, and we want to present it in its purest form to other people. For me, I don't like people asking me to teach them Stick-Kick fighting coz that's not how I want FMA to presented to people.
     
  2. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan

    "I'd probably do that too! Destroy his legs, knees, ankles, toes, so he couldnt kick anymore. Unless people would make a lame rule that only padded sticks or ultra light, pencil-like rattan sticks should only be used to avoid injury. Hooray the kickers win! LOL."
    __________________
    If kicks will be allowed in an arnis competition, it wont be so easy to destroy an opponent's legs ,knees,toes...considering the fact that he is also armed. As I posted before, a kick can be used as a fake or distraction to create an opening.Im not saying my shin is harder than your stick, what Im saying is I also have a stick.

    "don't want Wanlu to take it the wrong way, hey we have kicks in FMA too. It is just FMA weaponry is more emphasized in A/K/E, and we want to present it in its purest form to other people. For me, I don't like people asking me to teach them Stick-Kick fighting coz that's not how I want FMA to presented to people"

    No problem with me guys...youre the experts in arnis and I honestly respect that.

    "I mean the idea of allowing kicks in an arnis competetion is a good idea...it may or may not work but the idea is good.
    (Just like when Da Vinci had the then impossible idea of flying machines...his inventions didnt work but the idea was good)"

    Erm sorry can't agree with you on this one, it literally wasn't a good idea because it didn't work ! though it would be fair to say some of the principles of his concept were good.


    Im not very good in expressing my point and so I apologize but my simple point only is...da Vinci's machines did not work but isnt the idea of flying machines a GREAT IDEA?

    Maybe allowing kicks in an arnis competiton is not a good idea now. But who knows, maybe years from now when our grand kids get tired of the same rules and stuff, they might want to use this idea. Armed MMA :)

    I honestly can think of some kicks that would be effective in an arnis competiton...either used as a fake to lower down the guard of my opponent or as a strike to at the very least out balance him then deliver an arnis strike...but then again, its just me and my imagination.

    May God bless all of us and give us a great year ahead of us.

    Im ready to start my arnis lessons by end of January '06...months from now, when I finally know a few things about arnis...maybe I can understand more why you guys think that Sipaluan is not a good idea. OR I can try to convince you otherwise.


    Thanks

    Attached is a photo of a demo of KrabiKrabong at the 23rd SEA Games during the MuayThai competitions
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 30, 2005
  3. oosh

    oosh Valued Member

    "Im not very good in expressing my point and so I apologize but my simple point only is...da Vinci's machines did not work but isnt the idea of flying machines a GREAT IDEA?"

    Erm yeh i suppose in that respect it was a good idea ! but i'm not sure how this analogy is applicable to introducing kicks to arnis comps :p

    "Maybe allowing kicks in an arnis competiton is not a good idea now. But who knows, maybe years from now when our grand kids get tired of the same rules and stuff, they might want to use this idea. Armed MMA"

    Indeed, I think the Dog Brothers have been working on "Kali Tudo" for sometime now, check out their webby.
     
  4. Crucible

    Crucible Valued Member

    Yep that's the one.

    :eek: :D, I think dropped the knife after being blinded by your receding hairline... Ouch ouch! My eyes!!


    Wanlu,

    Look forward to hearing your insights when your arnis training starts. Given your YawYawn/Muay Thai background, the likely hood of you effectively pulling off a kick in a weapons match is much higher the average person. When you have some basics down you should spar practitioners from many different systems as they'll all respond differently. Who knows we may all learn something from this.

    Happy New Years!
     
  5. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan

    Thank you very much Crucible...Im actually so excited to start training after the Holidays...I just hope I can find someone to train me fast as in FAST...Im too old for commercial type schools...Ive had Arnis training before but all I can remember is Sinawali and a few basic strikes. It felt like the instructors didnt want us to learn as in really learn.

    I like the way MuayThai Krus teach ...fast and direct to the point. Its also the same with grappling...you learn real fast.

    I feel that learning Arnis is a step to enhance even Yaw-Yan/MuayThai practitioners' skills...

    God willing I do learn Arnis, Ill embrace it the way I embraced Yaw-Yan and MuayThai.

    Happy New year to you Crucible and to all of us in MAP...

    Mabuhay
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2005
  6. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan


    Ha ha...that I give you. :) Thanks dude

    Happy new Year
     
  7. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan

    Just found a Great Arnis site and look what I found in the gallery...its Arnis NHB...evidently with kicks.

    Great!!!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 31, 2005
  8. oosh

    oosh Valued Member

    good picture Wanlu, to quote the RapidArnis site "Master O'Malley (on left) with JKD's Neil Mcleod fighting No holds Barred stick fighting at the WEKAF World Championships in Cebu City, Philippines"
     
  9. Silentblade

    Silentblade Silent Death

    Wanlu, I heard Yaw-Yan Ar-Digma has weapons training in its curriculum. (saw it in another forum) Why train in other arnis styles if Yaw-Yan already has it?
     
  10. littlebadboy

    littlebadboy Valued Member

    yup... i think that's Master Pat O'Malley indeed... and i think he likes pain... :)
     
  11. WVNicholson

    WVNicholson Valued Member

    Yes I suppose so although I think he would agree it is like Christmas - it is better to give rather than receive...
    William
     
  12. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Let's do a poll

    About learning to kick and hit with a stick. There are two ways to go about it. One, you may learn from the perspective of a kicker seeking to integrate stick techniques. Or, learn stick-fighting from the point of view of a master stick-fighter; only when one has learned at least the basics, then he can try to integrate kicking.

    In the first method, one will always be a kicker first, a stick fighter second. The second method ensures the fighter more flexibility as he can easily switch tactics depending on the situation, with or without weapon.

    Most of the good arnis players I personally know also have good empty-hand (and kicking) techniques. When they fight without any weapons, they don't always resemble arnis because they have incorporated techniques from many systems. When they fight with sticks, they don't look like they are doing kickboxing, grappling or boxing.

    The only way an idea can be proven to be good or bad is to try it out. Let's conduct a poll. I ask you guys if you have actually tried the type of sparring in arnis that allows kicking. If you have, what are your comments, please?

    I will start: I have done this kind of sparring. The most effective kicks are directed at the low-line, although it is possible to hit a high target. The sparring sessions looked like arnis, and not kickboxing with sticks.

    Aha! I got you with my secret weapon. Lucky for you, the death ray wasn't put on full.
     
  13. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan


    Ive seen it before and I dont think its for sports arnis...its basically for combat.

    Id like to learn a diferent fighting system...


    Thanks
     
  14. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan

    If ever Kicks will be allowed in an Arnis competition, I certainly hope that it wont resemble kickboxing. I hope it will be FMA...

    I dont know any arnis principles or strikes or counter...but I have to agree with RedBagani that Low kicks will be very effective rather than high kicks...since low kicks can either damage or at least outbalance your opponent...low- powerful kicks to the legs...then followed up with arnis strikes to the head or body.

    I hope it will still be more on sticks...and the kicks will only be used to prepare an arnis strike...

    You guys and gals are so lucky having the experience in both Arnis and kickboxing...
     
  15. Silentblade

    Silentblade Silent Death

    so basically you're looking for sports arnis FMA?
     
  16. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Awww, come on!

    When you imply that Yaw Yan's brand of Arnis is too deadly for sports, I am prompted to say I do not believe it. I know sports arnis champions who can give traditionally-trained stylists a hard time in a real fight. If Yaw Yan's style is so superior, there is no need for you to learn another style.

    Lots of clubs that participate in tournaments teach a combat form. The only clubs that are really sports-oriented are those that are based in schools. Clubs such as Lightning Scientific Arnis, Illustrisimo, Lameco, de Campo, etc. have deadly techniques but were able to adopt to the sports succesfully. It just takes discipline to adopt to the rules.

    I have always believed that Yaw Yan did not originate from Arnis. It was, from the start, an empty-handed style. I have seen Nap Fernandez himself perform arnis and I wasn't impressed. I have also seen other Yaw Yan guys perform self-defense with weapons and I didn't see anything that distinguished them from the other styles. In fact, some of the demonstrations involve spinning around and kicking a knife from an attacker's hand, something that only a mutant ninja turtle will think of doing in a real fight.
     
  17. Silentblade

    Silentblade Silent Death

    Uh oh. I was actually avoiding the "my style is only for combat" or "my style is very deadly for sports" debate. lol. :p :D
     
  18. burungkol

    burungkol Team Yaw-Yan

    I believe all that wanlu said was "he wanted to learn a diferent fighting system..."?????
     
  19. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Of course this is not true. You edited out his previous statement which was an answer to the question by Silentblade, "Why train in other arnis styles if Yaw-Yan already has it?" He replied it was because YY's was for combat and not sports.

    This statement has two implications: 1st YY has an arnis style. I believe YY is basically an empty-hand style and did not originate from arnis. 2nd, his statement puts other clubs that participate in sports as somewhat less combative than YY, which I find insulting.

    I don't know if I simply misunderstood your statements, Wanlu.You did say you didn't express yourself too well.
     
  20. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan

    RedBagani

    Yes...Im not too good with words.

    I was just at the ArDigma gym in Bulacan this afternoon in search of an arnis style. Im Yaw-Yan and the best place to start the search is where else but the Yaw-Yan gym...Ive seen Yaw-Yan Arnis before but I was hoping I could find something different this afternoon and yes I did see a lot that I found so impressive and remarkable as far as the ArDigma fighters train emptyhand...but as far as sports arnis is concerned, my search goes on.

    When I posted that Yaw-Yan Arnis if for Combat and not for sports, I didnt mean any dishonor to any style. Not even Yaw-Yan Arnis itself

    I personally find Yaw-Yan Arnis is not for sports meaning it seemed to me that it lacks the techniques to be used in Sports...I said this because I didnt see any Arnis sparring or anything that may convince me that its applicable for sports Arnis...I find it basically for actual fighting.The strikes are basic...basic for actual fighting or combat. Was that dificult to understand?

    There was no way I meant that Yaw-Yan Arnis is superior than any style
    ...but I do appreciate your comments RedBagani because you post your honest and most of the time too blunt oppinions. But thats why we have this forum right...you told me before that If one cant stand criticisms,one must not join a forum and I agree with you a hundred percent. The Yaw-Yan Arnis as I find it is not good enough for sports arnis...Thats simply how I find it.

    One can go to a fitness gym that teaches boxing for cardio like what I get at Fitness First gym ...but of course the strikes are basic boxing as in BASIC...NOT GOOD ENOUGH...(NOT EVEN CLOSE) for Sports Boxing. It maybe good enough to learn how to fight in the streets but youll be creamed if you fight in the ring.



    Yaw-Yan itself is divided into sports and combat...there are techniques and arsenals used for sports Yaw-Yan but one will be stupid to use it in an actual combat or vice versa

    Again I dont know anything about Arnis but it may be possible that in Arnis there are techniques,moves,strikes etc that are applicable in Sports but not too wise to use in Combat or vice versa.


    I mean no dishonor to any style...and certainly I dont mean to dishonor Yaw-Yan Arnis when I say its not good enough for Sports Arnis...but I have my reasons to find a different fighting system as far as Arnis is concerned.

    RedBagani...please give me enough time to learn Arnis and maybe then Ill have the right words to properly express my thoughts...I repeatedly admit that I dont know anything about Arnis and any posts I make about Arnis re techniques or principles are just me and my imagination. God willing I learn Arnis...then we may speak the same language, so to speak.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2006

Share This Page