Arnis Escrima Kali FMA?(no not again, don't worry!)

Hello.....

Just looked at this thread.

Soon....hmm, yes very soon....;-)

Bill

BTW, one reason to question is to learn. If you question what is said you can learn. If you question the person, you'd be better off finding someone else to learn from, as you don't trust them; i.e. "I don't agree with your statement/I don't agree with you", very different connotations here.

Bill

 

I was reffering to the Kali- Arnis, eskrima terminologies whihch is what this thread is all about and the questioning the Manongs of the validty of their choices to use their particular term.

When it comes to learning , without a doubt should you ask questions that's why there is a teacher and a student. The art will eradicate blind stupity if you don't ask or learn anything, you get whacked!

Pain is a good teacher but training smarter by asking questions is better

 

Some of my relatives are from Luzon while some others are Bisayan. Those from Luzon call it Arnis while the ones from the Bisayas call it Eskrima. I asked both groups what the differences in terminology were. They said that, when it comes down to it, they're just names to describe the same things with slight regional variations. Just like with the stick, it can be known as a baston, olisi, yantok, garotte, kahoy, etc. Still, they all describe some kind of a wooden stick, all used as a weapon somehow.

As for Kali, most never heard of it and the few that did only heard of it in the last decade through the media.

This name-thingo has been debated ad infinitum, so I'm not intending on engaging in that...no way, Jose! But, it seems that Kali is also used interchageably, as well.

I mean, didn't Leo Gaje used to teach Arnis in New York in the 1970's then headed the Arnis America Organization before calling his system PT Kali? Also, Jun De Leon called what he taught Arnis back in the early 1980's in an eastern suburb of Toronto. His club used to be known as the Arnis Academy way before everyone else knew his system as Kali De Leon. FMA is always changing, so there's nothing wrong with that. Growth is what we all hope for.

Just as in the English language, whether it be spoken by someone from London, Dublin, Belfast, Glasgow, Auckland, Melbourne, Boston, Memphis, Los Angeles, Toronto, New York (OK, I take that one back...j/k )...in the end, isn't it really all just English no matter how you listen to it?

Anyway, I tend not to say Kali, but only because I've used Arnis & Eskrima interchageably since childhood. I'll use Kali if conversing with someone who practices a system that includes Kali in its description, out of respect to him/her.

 

Ah, misunderstanding on my part, oooppps!
But yes, if someone in the PI used the term Kali I would ask them how they came about the name of the style they used, I always do. By asking this question I found out that Balintawak was named after a Street in Cebu, Lapunti Arnis De Abanico was named after 3 Barrios where the Caburanys used to live and socialise. Doce Pares was names, well you know what I mean.

Now bearing in mind that most officianados in the PI have only really learned the term Kali in the past 10 years (as stated by one of our great MAP members) would it not be also fair to ask why ther person you are training with uses the term *insert name here* Kali, after all with all this debate relating to the term Kali surely your students who may well be surfing the net or talking to other FMAers question why this term is being used by you and your school. Once you are furnish with the answer from the Manongs, then that would be the valid answer you would give to those who have there doubts.

It is not the question you ask that causes offence, but rather how you ask the question that counts.

Best regards

Pat

 

Growing up in stockton, CA the first filipino martial art term I heard was escrima. When i finally got involved with martial arts when i was 19(started out mande muda) was instructed a little in Serrada, it was still escrima. Only when i started reading books and magazines did i hear about kali. Even though Bahala Na had Arnis on the coat of arms, People still referred to by the term right below it, Escrima. Stockton, along with Hawaii, became huge testing grounds and Practice-oriented forums for not just (generic term) FMA's, but martial arts in general. Danzan-ryu(hawaii), Cabales Serrada(stockton), Parkers kenpo(hawaii/california), Giron Largo Mano(stockton), Tenio Decuerdas(stockton), Max Sarmiento Cadena de Mano(stockton), Daniel Inosanto(Graduate of Edison HS in Stockton)....when it came to FMA, it was escrima. Whether Kali was a historically accurate name, i dunno. Some People seem to think it's an anacronym, others believe it's Hindu oriented via majapahit or sri visayan, on and on. Escrima, for me, represents east/west blending at it's finest. Beautifull, fluid, adaptable, sophisticated, and effective and battle tested, centuries over. While the Filipinos were testing combat between islands, pirates(many were chinese or muslims), the spanish were being battle-hardend ranging from Romans, Moors, to British. the result is just beautifull, and for whatever reason, a good portion of people decided to call it Escrima or Arnis. If you went up and down the Californian Central valley and asked about the Filipino Martial Arts, some would have said arnis, but most would have probably said escrima. Skirmish just seems to fit more to me. But to each their own.

Jimmy In Stk, CA