Applications By Anslow (full resistance - oh yes) ;-)

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by StuartA, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    Can't remember if I posed this before or not, but seeing as Simon O'Neill is getting all the attention for his video clips, heres some video apps of mine on film.

    To be fair its from the TV show Nikita.. in season 2, Ep 1 there is a fight scene between Nikita & Alex... Nikita used one of the applications from Hae Sul Vol. 1 on screen... the palm hooking block application from Yul-Gok.. even the elbow crank (if you know the app). Straight afterwards she then used a low block application!! I should get some credits lol

    Heres the part of the Nikita episode I mention... First app appears at 0:45 (just after Alex drops the gun)... 2nd one at 1:08..

    :)

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmZicnYfXS0"]Nikita 2x01 - Game Change - Nikita shoots Alex - YouTube[/ame]
     
  2. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    I was thinking about this for a while and have often thought how useless patterns are/were. My mind has recently changed. In Do-San the pattern i am currently learning the middle thrust with streight fingertip and twist could work in an actual real scenario. Particularly if someone is barraging punches at you. This move could easily work. It would potentially end the fight and maybe land you in jail.

    Baza
     
  3. TKDDragon

    TKDDragon Valued Member

    Just curious but what is the spear thrust application in the case of do san that your taught? I've seen people teach some "interesting" things regarding spear thrusts. Feel free to pm me if you don't want to post it.
     
  4. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    It's not an issue for me to tell you, i'm quite happy your interested to be honest.

    The spear thrust i am taught goes like this:

    Form a right L stance while executing a middle guarding block with knife hand (left).

    Form a right walking stance while executing a middle thrust with right streight fingertip.

    Now it gets trciky

    Twist the right knife-hand together with the body anti clockwise until its palm faces downward and then move the left foot, turning anti clockwise to form a left walking stance while executing a high side strike with the left back fist.

    I have never had to explain this type of thing before and have only started learning Do-San but that part jumped out at me. My explenation may not be entirely accurate but it's the best i could come up with.

    Baza
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  5. TKDDragon

    TKDDragon Valued Member

    That's the section I thought you were referencing thanks. How are you taught to apply that sequence in a scenario? Especially against punches
     
  6. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    I haven’t been taught the application yet. My instructor usually takes me to the side and walks me through it, he just hasn’t done it yet. The actual manoeuvre makes sense to me.

    I spar with a guy who likes to flurry his punches, I have used the left middle guarding block to stop this flourish and can honestly he has never connected when I use this block. Of course it isn’t a solitary block. I may have to block multiple times.

    For me it makes sense to use this block and apply the knife hand straight finger directly after as in the pattern.

    The block stops the initial attack and the fingertip thrust to throat ends the fight. Of course when sparring this would never be used but I have used it with a punch and scored and score quite regularly with it. In fairness though this was my style before I even learned the pattern – it just makes sense to me.

    It must be noted though that in a sparring scenario or heaven forbid a real life engagement L Stance wouldn’t be used and walking stance is probably the stance I would adopt in this situation anyway. The technique in the application wouldn’t be precise either though, it may be sloppy in a real situation but I think those two techniques in particular allow you a measure of carte blanche. My general style I figure is counter attack so this suits me.

    What is the application as you know it? Is there a correct application?

    Baza
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  7. TKDDragon

    TKDDragon Valued Member

    Wouldn't say there is any one "correct" application. Done from middle section the downward movement can be a release. The block/trapping movement with a stepping in counter is also valid.

    One I have never liked is the spear thrust to the mid section concept in that you can penetrate the abdominal wall :( granted one of our blackbelts did break a board one time in demo with a similar techniques but he also dislocated 3 fingers. With the flexibility of the abs I'm not sure that particular application is valid.
     
  8. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    Ahh i see what you mean. I may be doing the pattern wrong then because when i spear thrust it is about throat level and never at abdominal level. But no i don't think spear thrust would work in the scenario you describe. Dislocated fingers!!!

    Baza
     
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    There's no way I'd be looking to spear someone in the throat with my finger tips.
    There are ways to use the straight finger thrust (nukite in karate) but that ain't one of them.
     
  10. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    Nor would i but it's valid application. I'd use a punch in the context of the pattern and the practicality.

    Can you expand on Nukite? I don't do Karate but am interested in your thoughts.

    Baza
     
  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Yeah...TKD gets the Sun sonkut tulgi from Karate where it's called "nukite".
    In some cases the other hand goes under the thrusty side's elbow and in some cases it goes back to the hip.
    If you want to see how to use the Sun sonkut tulgi you'd be well served looking at how the nukite is used too.
     
  12. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    Yeah thats the way i practice the pattern hand under elbow. How would you apply this technique if required to?

    Baza
     
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Well there are multiple ideas from loads of different people.
    For one I'd forget about using the finger tips and instead look at using other parts to hit with. The palm (as it's moving in a bit as well as forward), the hand edge (over the top of something like a neck), the trailing forearm (going alongside the neck), the inner bicep (slamming across the chest/neck) for example.
    The palm block can be a hand trap, manipulation, arm lock (up the back), parry etc.

    Personally I'd probably use it as a hand parry to a push/punch, stepping to the side and then palm strike across their face.
    Although there are plenty of other examples. :)
     
  14. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    The punch would be my preference, your hands already moving in that direction.

    Baza
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  15. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I always liked the idea of (in the context of Do San) the left being a grab/swat away of a guarding arm, then the thrust is actually a reach behind the opponent's neck ready for a headbut.

    Years ago I saw a black and white film of a karate kata with the nukite followed by a very deliberate movement of the head, which seemed to me to indicate the head strike. Unfortunately I didn't save the URL and haven't been able to locate it since :(

    Mitch
     
  16. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    Yeah the left guard seems to be the catalyst, although defensive (Can be offensive) seems to open up for multiple offensive strikes.

    Baza
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  17. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I like that too. :)

    Although I did have one TKD instructor say that TKD taught you how to use a knife by holding a knife while he did that bit from Do-san. :)
     
  18. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    Blimey this thread wasnt getting no replies and suddenly it jumps to two pages :)

    Off the top of my head, for straight fingertip thrusts (the two main variations that are in (Do-San and Won-Hyo) I teach the following:
    - Shoulder throw
    - hip throw
    - basic wrist release (as taught in many TKD schools - except the newer incantation of the movement doesn't work)
    - wrist release that involves a spinning elbow strike
    - strike to the throat (only from very close range/vertical grappling distance).

    I know Rick Clark also teaches it as a pressure point technique and Willie Lim as a prelude to a take down.

    Stuart
     
  19. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    This is the newer incantation I referred to in my last post and doesnt work as the commonly taught application. The twist isn't enough (it use to be 180 degrees) and the pivot on the balls of the feet doesnt help the motion for a release, it use to be a half step with the back foot, that created a fast thrusting motion that passed the attackers body, which when coupled with the 180 twist and dropping movement, created the release.

    We we doing this at class just last night btw - as well as some of the others mentioned earlier. :)

    Stuart

    Ps. try them and see if they work or not against a full grip!
     
  20. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    For ITF TKD, the 'correct' application is the one I described in the earlier post. There are a few 'designated' releases in the ITF patterns and this is one of them... but, as I said, the movement was changed and sadly, the more modern version is no longer an effective release.

    (Slightly) funny story for you - years ago I won a £10 bet using this technique ;)

    The level for Ch'ang hon/ITF dictates abdomen ie. solar plexus. I agree though, its not the best place for it - so just relating the standard area for patterns (as opposed to using it as an app).

    Stuart
     

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