So why did he run back everytime you gave him the shove...?? Also why did he believe that he had to lie on the floor...?? Why oh Why did he let you in like he did, and why try the SAME move ALL the time..??? Is that the only one that works for your "demo" of your "prowess"...??? He didnt exihibit sod all peng, ji or an... and most of it was him running into the wall or lying on the floor... if I let my Shifu in like he did you he would put me on my rear pretty darn quick but without the sleeping thing... perhaps your students have sleeping sickness...??? But then I forgot you have the r34l t41j1 as given to you by your master who is the only one who really "knows" what Yang Lu Chan is on about... riiiight...
It has been explained over and over again, you must be unwilling to understand. It is not fighting, I am not interested in competing or fighting. It is training. All the work you see has far less physical input in it from me as it does for them. That is the point. You take into your centre the other persons physical energy and rotate it, highjack their Chi with your Yi and in the process supressing their Yi. They do the work. In the simple part of the training when you let them just push that even looks odd as the pushee pants and struggles and the person being pushed just stands there. That is because the harder he tries the easier it is, eventually they realise they are making it hard for themselves as what they do is just fed back to them. Anyway here is Martins session make of it what you will. It is in someways more interesting as Martin is more advanced in it than Paul so at times he counters me and make me look for other angles. http://s43.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=19JNKDAI56D35169VOYKDB3GZ5
Because this is training, application is different. Luchan applied his training when it became reality, that is different. Anyway forget me if you think I am such a Pratt, just use me as the piano player. According to my estimation John Ding (he is London based) is about 10 times more advanced (powerfull) in this than I am, my teacher is about 10 times more powerfull than him, and I would guess Luchan was about 10 times more powerfull than him. Most others keep their mouths shut about it, I am incapable of that Though as I said Chu Gin Soon 2nd disciple to Yang Sau Chung (4th generation gatekeept to the Yang family) and Chu King Hung (3rd Disciple to YSC) also publish clips and talk about it.
So I presume you were on the steroid thing as well. It really ***** you up. It distorts the body structure and blocks energy flow. Martin has really had to work hard in the last 8 years with us to counter it. But *he* says this work has countered it and re-opened the body paths, he swears by it and is getting pretty powerfull in it in the process as well. He teaches an A of E class in Stevenage. Chen Ting Hung recommended and believed in it, the same as Ban Hou and Shou Hou recommended Opium and believed in it. YBH and YSH believed it switched off the physical nature and made the energy more powerfull. That may be, but nitro tanks blow cylinder heads. Working today and teaching this evening and every evening and some days this week so will try to catch up on it latter in the week.
Ummm isnt it training for fighting... oh thats right Taiji isnt an MA... doh how homer of me to think that... whether or not you are interested in competing or fighting (both of which I have no interest in either) you MUST realise that taji is about fighting... its not just an arm waving "energy" exercise... I see where the problem lies... its simple lack of understanding of the basic explanations of concepts... the point is to let them do the work, however it has nothing to do with hijacking Qi/Chi/Ki and then using the "force" to make them move, dance or using a vulcan neck pince to "put them to sleep"... you redirect their force... if the push you redirect it to one side or up or down... the more I study and research Taiji the more I am coming to believe how much has been misconstrued by those who really want to believe in this mystical Qi/Chi/Ki as something to fill a viod they have been searching to fill.. The demo with Martin... hes what about 5'10... its really about the same as the other fella but with more sleeping... people who teach such as you do is the reason I was kept away from Taiji for so long... how I regret the fact that I let fakirs and charlatans disuade me from such a great art...
Ummm okay... first thats a very big assumption to make regarding what I have or have not done... even though in this case you are not far off the mark... 2nd no they dont... please dont try to preach about something you have no clue on... the reason I would also assume that martin really had to work hard is because he was tense and was unable to relax and had bad posture.. nothing to do with AAS... everything to do with mind and body... and perhaps emotional state... Not sure what the A of E thing is...
As I said earlier it is only the attitude displayed by Liokault and Richard I have a problem with, I actually agree with much of what BOTH are saying, I just think they are both on self-centred ego trips that devalues any useful content they may contribute here lol I've highlighted what I think is the key phrase here. I DO believe there are lots of unseen energies permeating the material world: radio waves, radiation, microwaves, ultraviolet, pheromones etc etc I believe qi is one of, or a combination of, those things that we just can't understand or measure yet... BUT I am sceptical as to how much can actually be done in the physical world with said energies. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it is more complex and subtle than these silly clips (which I actually find fascinating in some ways lol) are making out. I've been around various types of healing energy for most of my 20 years in Taijiquan and I've experienced all sorts of wierd stuff, I've also practised spontaneous qi flow qigong that seems to take over the body - BUT only IF you're willing to go with it. I think any benefit to MA practice would be impossible to discern externally tbh - that doesn't mean it won't be there, you just won't see it in a clip! I believe in a combination of training if you want to be any good as a tjq MAist - each has its place - the trick is in isolating, then seamlessly re-combining, the various aspects imo. I think the lifting from a chair trick I described earlier (unfortunately not filmed, but I'm sure I could arrange it sometime) is a much more interesting demo of wierdness as I was definitely NOT co-operating and was not 'a believer', I was talked into it. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think that's a description of how you think about it! I agree with it partially, but not completely. I actually think BOTH pov's apply, depending on what your purpose is and how you develop your art. Chinese language is multi-layered and ambiguous at the best of times - our attempts to westernise the language of the classics is always a compromise and always generates debates like this one (most interesting when people aren't being rude imo ) Hence I can see both pov's in this debate and think both are right for the people involved (what I'd really love to see is the two sides try each other's training methods out for a year or two rather than just dismissing out of hand tbh) I agree, I also think gravity can be manipulated and have experienced this at times - nothing dramatic externally but definitely stuff happening internally lol Actually I don't care what EMAists think of Taiji as a 'martial art' tbh and this is, I think, the principle problem here (other than Richard's arrogant attitude and game-playing lol). I remember reading articles about (and by) Dan Docherty when I started learning the Yang style and to me it all seemed to be about male pride and competition in the face of criticism by the EMA crowd. Don't get me wrong, I understand what Dan is about a bit more now and I'm sure he's actually an ok dude, (similar opinion of Erle Montaigue too btw), and I think both have someting good to teach people, but it is always a compromise and it isn't the only way to go. So what? So we're all different people with different tastes and desires. IMHO If you end up externalising the Taiji to 'prove' something to others you are already no longer doing Taijiquan at its most profound level. That does not mean what you do is 'no good', just that it is not the 'internal' art of Taiji anymore - it becomes a hybrid art. I'm quite happy to be a 'mixed' Tjq user, my art is certainly a mongrel, but my eye is always on moving towards a purer, more internally powered, more subtle art rather than trying to get harder and harder... (A personal flaw of mine is that I hate the whole lineage thing btw - they're just like the kennel club who are horrible vain people that actually only care about their 'image' and glory and not about the animals they own. Mongrels are great dogs and purebreds tend to get inbred too much and develop problems. A good analogy for modern Taijiquan imo) I, like Richard was taught that the Taiji cannot be separated from the 'Taoist' aspect. So, 'no' I do not think you can separate them without losing something from your Taiji. Just because others don't 'get it' doesn't mean you should 'dumb it down' imo lol It's a dilemma! 'Let go' is my advice Actually I think Richard has dived headlong up his own bottom lol Again though, why should we compromise for newcomers? What is the motive? Money? Numbers in a club? Show the martial art by all means, but that doesn't mean shutting the door on the esoteric side of things imo - check out Alex Kozma for a good example of MA and Tao without compromise... I've met a lot of folk who are 'new age' taiji players but I don't actually see much of that in here tbh. I don't actually think it matters what your beliefs are to do tjq - I think tjq IS taoist in both philosophy and application (taiji = yin and yang, principle strategy for tjq use, posture etc etc) and as Taoism is 3-4 thousand years old it's hardly 'new age' is it? But belief? Not necessary, just understanding and practice. And lastly, thank you very much for the reasoned and polite way you have put your points across. I genuinely appreciate that. :Angel:
Uh actually TB this is pretty much how I view it as well... I have oft said how I think that its the terms that were used taking on a mystical quality when all they intended to do was to describe something in 1st century AD understanding of how the material world works... eg humours used as a term in medicine to describe when someone got sick it was their bad humours... now we know its viruses (or is that virusi??) and infection...
One of us One of us One of us One of us :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes: Cool, I agree largely, but surely it's not grounds for dismissing it altogether tho eh? Science is about constantly questioning re-examining imo. Modern medicine acknowledges many old folk remedies actually work. I practice healing that seems to help people get better somehow even tho scientifically it's impossible lol - and I met someone whose life was saved by applying live maggots to an infected wound (they got stabbed while living rough in London) - also many effective herbal remedies that work (eg aspirin in its natural form) develop side-effects and lose efficacy when synthesised by 'scientific' medicine - but this is another topic for another thread methinks!! :Angel:
Neat when do I get my decoder ring While a few old wives remedies did and do work they have yet to prove that empty force does too... I know they use maggots and even leeches in modern medicine but that doesnt take away from the fact that old terms were used to define unknown things that can now be explained using the knowledge we have now... I really dont think we will again explain infection and sickness in terms of a persons bad humours... but youre right its best left to another thread and to people more knowledgeable than I... hope the new year and Christmas went well mate..
you know this is comin.... "When you can snatch the pebble from my palm, you will be ready, my son...." :Alien: Happy New Year to you too m8 :Angel:
If anyone is interested, which I am sure most are not. We have booked a small room in Oxford to host various martial artists on Jan 8th 12-4pm. If anyone is interested in coming and showing some 'energy' work (or magic, force, force field crap, etc.) feel free to PM me or Cullion for an Address. The cost is only going to be the price of the room (27 quid) divided by the number of guys turning up (about 15 so far).
Would like to Liokault but wont be able to make the 8th... perhaps the next one... (just not at exam time)...
This a Bullshido thing? Aren't they all crying cause you do Tai Chi, and no one in the UFC does Tai Chi?
Several bullshido mods have CMA backgrounds, it isn't an MMA fansite. They just laugh at people who refuse to spar or grapple with the techniques they have, but still then insist on claiming they are doing (or teaching) an effective MA.
Actually, it's free to any Tai Chi practitioner who turns up and takes part in some sparring or grappling. I am happy to cover that small cost to see Tai Chi practitioners doing their thing with non-cooperative partners from other martial arts.
