Anyone else prefer the more traditional 'hands out front' stance?

Discussion in 'Thai Boxing' started by Anarch, Mar 25, 2012.

  1. Anarch

    Anarch Valued Member

    When I first learned, my trainer taught me to hold my arms out at a good distance, turn my palms towards my opponent, and keep each arm at the same distance. Later on I started turning my fists/palms more towards me and started distancing my hands.

    It's good to start learning with, but it's pretty uncomfortable. Good for a quick clinch up and Thais supposedly did it to mimic elephants tusks. Anyone else ever do this or prefer this stance?
     
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Yes this is a very traditional type Muay Thai stance and works well if you are accustomed to distancing yourself and understand just what your opponents reach is. It ties in very smoothly with traditional Thai footwork which is often triangular in nature. Much of which is missing from K-1 or more western style Muay Thai footwork.

    This is often why the Thai's can walk right into the clinch and it confounds many non-Thai's. It's not perfect and it can be open to western style punching somewhat. But it's a beautiful thing to see when it's pulled off to good effect.

    Unfortunately last month or so I trained with Teelek Fairtex and he would just walk in on me at will. Negating pretty much no matter what I threw. He has that classical Thai structure. Structure is everything in Muay Thai. Very frustrating to deal with. I caught more than few shots as he just marched forward arms up in the position you mention.

    :( :p
     
  3. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    the plum. love to use it. hate it when it is done to me.
     
  4. Anarch

    Anarch Valued Member


    Haha, that's great. I've only seen a few people do it but most of them were Thai. Get them in that stance and throw in some light 'on your toes' footwork and it's a deadly stance.
     
  5. Anarch

    Anarch Valued Member

    Never heard of it referred to as the plum though?
     
  6. cloystreng

    cloystreng Valued Member

    Could anyone supply a picture for those of us uninformed? Thanks!
     
  7. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Anyone else prefer the more traditional 'hands out front' stance?

    Are you talking about something like this? This posture is called 黄瓜架(Huang Gua Jia) and commonly used in the Chinese wrestling.

    The advantage of this posture is

    - Quick clinch up (as you have mentioned).
    - You can force a striker to play your favor grappling game instead of to play his favor striking game.
    - If you can fight in your opponent's territory (close to his body), you don't have to fight in your own territory (close to your body).
    - It's much easier to interrupt your opponent's punch in the early stage (before he generates power close to his body) than in the later stage (after he has generated power close to your body).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2tvq62bT1M"]Chang brother beng - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdZnsUNSz4w"]sc16 - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
  8. Anarch

    Anarch Valued Member

    ^That's about it! I learned keeping my arms a little closer, though but that's pretty much the same positioning. Felt a little unnatural to me but with practice and if you have good reach, it'd be a really good position. Also makes it hard to telegraph any of your moves.
     
  9. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Thais call Western wrestling Muay Plam,Plam is wrestling/clinching,different names are used for the varying positions and techniques used in Plam,ie Jab Kor or grab the neck:)
     
  10. Anarch

    Anarch Valued Member

    Never knew that. I'll have to look into that though. Pretty interesting.
     
  11. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    It's not a style, that would be rubbish! Open to body kick, uppercut, got no coil for boxing etc I think you mean long guard as a way of defence, but that's only lead arm held straight. Or yarmsarmkhun (spell) 3 stride movement, a way of advancing on an opponent, but still the arms arnt outstretched fully.
    I hate to see fighters with the 'tong po' style blooming awful and not effective.
     
  12. Anarch

    Anarch Valued Member

    I've actually been pretty successful with it in sparring. Even if it isn't exactly as I described it and you modify it slightly to feel more natural, the general positioning and angles are pretty good (imo)
     
  13. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    wow. liking this thread.
    lots of interesting stuff here
     
  14. Ozma

    Ozma Valued Member

    This:
    http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=t...&w=225&h=368&ei=ddhzT_OaMcmfiQfJ57TkDw&zoom=1

    The current Muay Thai stance however, has been adapted to keep up with Westerners. It is also more effective in today's Western society, whereas, the old stance was, and is still used by Thais, because of the way they fight. They rely more on kicks and as such, have more or less kept the same stance. Westerners, however, tend to want to punch more, so the stance or guard, had to be adapted to suit the Western society.
     
  15. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    +1
     
  16. Oldi

    Oldi Valued Member

    With apologies for the threadomancy, I came on here to ask about this arms out stretched stance and found this thread. I'm 175lbs and 6'3 and most of my sparring is against people only slightly shorter and a lot heavier/stronger. My hand position has gone through a bit of an evolution over the 9 months I've been training. I started with my rear hand against my temple and my lead hand just in front of my face. Then people took to hitting my lead hand causing me to hit myself in the face and feel like an idiot. So now I keep both hands tight to my temples. This I find against rangier opponents leads to straight punches coming straight through the middle, so I'm open to something different. Unlike most people of my height (I think) I like to bob and weave or cover up, I and am not great at parrying.

    I was watching videos of Dieselnoi, as a lanky fighter someone on here recommended I take a look at, and he seems to spend a lot of time approaching opponents with his arms outstretched and attacks every time he is in range. Having read the comments above is this still a viable strategy today? I'll mention it to my instructor, she's very open to us developing our own styles in relation to body shapes and mechanics, but just wanted your informed opinion.
     
  17. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I call this "rhino" strategy.

    It can be used for offense.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuWaAyi2KCs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuWaAyi2KCs[/ame]

    It can also be used for defense.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTAd32BavQY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTAd32BavQY[/ame]

    But it's mainly used for clinch.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78tfRtp_WJ8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78tfRtp_WJ8[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  18. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    All guards have there strengths and weakness eh bro,I like the "long guard" you speak about greatly,Its mainly used by the clincher to stay in range when getting punched(straight punches and long knee same range weapons) the front hand is used as a feeler and can be used to push/pull the opponent into and out of positions,also it can be used to cover the opponents face before we elbow etc,actually its got so many uses and thats the reason I like it its very versatile:)
     
  19. Oldi

    Oldi Valued Member

    Thank you both.

    Is it commonly used by fighters tall for their weight classes? Does it not limit the effectiveness of straight punches to hold your hands out like that?
     
  20. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    IMO, when you use this strategy, you try to

    - protect your head (conservative attitude),
    - get into clinch ASAP (aggressive attitude),

    by sacrificing your punching ability. It's a trade off.

    You may ask, "If you can use one punch to knock down your opponent, why do you even bother to get into clinch?" Sometime you may not want to get into the level of violent that you will have problem in the court. When you break your opponent's nose in front of many witness, it won't be good for you. The clinch can give you many options.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014

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